England Could Have Won France 98

Houseman said:
I'm Argie and it could have been England like any other Top team from that WC.
In terms of names Brazil was ahead of everyone, yet that was a Cup that particulary had lots of teams in great form. Lots of even matches, that at the end only one wins.
I'm still bitter that Riquelme, Aimar and mostly Redondo didn't go. Last time perhaps I've witness Veron in his young dinamic 8 version.

Regarding England I'm more fond of the 90 one, that Cup had less capable teams in terms of names and even perfomances and that English team with Gazza was quite great, yet timing it's all and when it's not, it's not. Yet that team was in my view a more valid candidate to win it all.

PD: BTW some complaining about the Ref after Owen's fantastic dive (I mean fantastic ina good sense)?, come on.
Click to expand...
No mention of Simeone (IIRC) going down like he'd been shot after the show pony's brain dead act of petulance then?
 
jimharri said:
No mention of Simeone (IIRC) going down like he'd been shot after the show pony's brain dead act of petulance then?
Click to expand...

My PD was because some complains here were over the top just pointing at one side of the coin. At the same time indeed Simeone exaggerated, yet Becks was on the wrong there and got caught.
In the same way Owen dived (greatly may I add) and the ref bought it, so be it.

I don't think Beckham was petulant, he mostly was caught in the heat of the moment. WC matches are very stressing and demanding in terms of emotions, may be more than any other match from any other competition. They tend to be quite an emotional rollercoster.

Nothing to talk about that much, less in quite an even game and worse to imagine as a certainty (or close to it) that if England went through the title was more than probably at thier hands.

If anything like I've said before, this Cup had many matches with great teams, with more or less similar caliber names and disputed matches that could go either way, I trully think that England had a better shot with their WC 90 team.
 
Last edited:
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
I took nearly as long to get over that as I did that absolute fuck-up in Mexico City in 1970. I don't honestly think we would have won the competition — that Brazil team was fearsome. But 1990 — yep, I think we had a damn good chance. England were better than West Germany in that game, by the way.
Click to expand...
England in 1970 were a superb team. England played Brazil in a group stage game in the 1970 World Cup, and it was a VERY close game, with Brazil edging winners 1-0. In the final, I think England might have beaten them in the final, in contrast to Italy who got schlonged 4-1.
 
OnlyOneUweRosler said:
England in 1970 were a superb team. England played Brazil in a group stage game in the 1970 World Cup, and it was a VERY close game, with Brazil edging winners 1-0. In the final, I think England might have beaten them in the final, in contrast to Italy who got schlonged 4-1.
Click to expand...

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
I've gone on record several times on this forum as saying that, in my considered opinion, that Brazil side was the best national side I've seen in my life. Yes, that was a mighty match between England and Brazil in the group stage, but let's face it, but for an unreal save by Banks, one for the ages, they win that comfortably. In any case, they won it. And as the tournament went on, Brazil got better and better. They were simply swatting the opposition aside. Even in the group matches, they smashed a very useful Czech side. England were a good side, but they were the second best team in the tournament, frankly. If they'd got to the final they might have done well, I strongly doubt they would have been tonked — but beating the likes of Tostão, Gerson, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto, Jairzino, Clodoaldo and a Pelé who, as Zagallo I think said, was finally playing for the team, not just for himself? I just don't see it. Incidentally, some finer connoisseurs of the game than I'll ever be are prepared to argue that it was Gérson who was the lynchpin of that team — not Pelé! I have some difficulty with that, but hey, it's a point of view…
It is a bit of pity that I saw the best football from a national side I was ever going to see relatively early in my football-following life. I didn't quite realise it at the time. Or well… maybe, after all, deep down, I did.
By the way, I'd add that the best national side that I saw not to win the WC was probably the Brazil side of 1982. I always regarded it as a tragedy that they went out. Although between them and the Dutch side of 1974, it's not a call I'd want to make.
 
Last edited:
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
I've gone on record several times on this forum as saying that, in my considered opinion, that Brazil side was the best national side I've seen in my life. Yes, that was a mighty match between England and Brazil in the group stage, but let's face it, but for an unreal save by Banks, one for the ages, they win that comfortably. In any case, they won it. And as the tournament went on, Brazil got better and better. They were simply swatting the opposition aside. Even in the group matches, they smashed a very useful Czech side. England were a good side, but they were the second best team in the tournament, frankly. If they'd got to the final they might have done well, I strongly doubt they would have been tonked — but beating the likes of Tostão, Gerson, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto, Jairzino, Clodoaldo and a Pelé who, as Zagallo I think said, was finally playing for the team, not just for himself? I just don't see it. Incidentally, some finer connoisseurs of the game than I'll ever be are prepared to argue that it was Gérson who was the lynchpin of that team — not Pelé! I have some difficulty with that, but hey, it's a point of view…
It is a bit of pity that I saw the best football from a national side I was ever going to see relatively early in my football-following life. I didn't quite realise it at the time. Or well… maybe, after all, deep down, I did.
By the way, I'd add that the best national side that I saw not to win the WC was probably the Brazil side of 1982. I always regarded it as a tragedy that they went out. Although between them and the Dutch side of 1974, it's not a call I'd want to make.
Click to expand...
I would add Hungary 1954 to that list. World record for unbeaten games, and pounded teams routinely, then the one game they needed to perform, they bottled a 2-0 lead to lose 3-2 in the final, albeit they had an equalizer disallowed controverially that would have made it 3-3.
 
OnlyOneUweRosler said:
I would add Hungary 1954 to that list. World record for unbeaten games, and pounded teams routinely, then the one game they needed to perform, they bottled a 2-0 lead to lose 3-2 in the final, albeit they had an equalizer disallowed controverially that would have made it 3-3.
Click to expand...

Well yes, unquestionably. I did limit it to sides I'd seen, to be fair! Famously, Hungary smashed England in those years, first at Wembley, then in Budapest even more conclusively. It was the wake-up call for English football. Or should have been.
 
Incidentally, OOUR, you may already know this, but apparently when the crowd saw Hungary going through their drills and warming up before k.o. at Wembley, many were guffawing, saying “That lot are going to be fagged out before they even start, doing that!”

Yeah, right…

Afterthought: as you know, they had the great Ferenc Puskás. He ended up running a small café in Budapest. I remember reading an interview with him, at that very café, in L'Équipe. A very modest man, not embittered. When you look at footballing show ponies today being paid £200,000 per week! Makes you think, doesn't it?
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately there’s very little footage of the 54 Hungarians side. I’ve seen the 6-3 game against England recently and it appeared they were playing a different sport.
I agree with the Brazil 1970 side being the benchmark to measure teams against and very few have come anywhere close.
 
feedmpenzaandhewillscore said:
Completely baffling how that goal gets ruled out.
Click to expand...
Twat of the Danish ref Kim Milton Nielson. Claimed Shearer was "leaning" on an Argie defender at the front post even though he was nowhere near Campbell when he headed it in. Came out in later years he was "quite fond" of receiving "gifts" from various associations and clubs!

​

 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
I've gone on record several times on this forum as saying that, in my considered opinion, that Brazil side was the best national side I've seen in my life. Yes, that was a mighty match between England and Brazil in the group stage, but let's face it, but for an unreal save by Banks, one for the ages, they win that comfortably. In any case, they won it. And as the tournament went on, Brazil got better and better. They were simply swatting the opposition aside. Even in the group matches, they smashed a very useful Czech side. England were a good side, but they were the second best team in the tournament, frankly. If they'd got to the final they might have done well, I strongly doubt they would have been tonked — but beating the likes of Tostão, Gerson, Rivelino, Carlos Alberto, Jairzino, Clodoaldo and a Pelé who, as Zagallo I think said, was finally playing for the team, not just for himself? I just don't see it. Incidentally, some finer connoisseurs of the game than I'll ever be are prepared to argue that it was Gérson who was the lynchpin of that team — not Pelé! I have some difficulty with that, but hey, it's a point of view…
It is a bit of pity that I saw the best football from a national side I was ever going to see relatively early in my football-following life. I didn't quite realise it at the time. Or well… maybe, after all, deep down, I did.
By the way, I'd add that the best national side that I saw not to win the WC was probably the Brazil side of 1982. I always regarded it as a tragedy that they went out. Although between them and the Dutch side of 1974, it's not a call I'd want to make.
Click to expand...
I always thought that the best player in that great team was roberto rivalino...by a long way.
 
Lovebitesandeveryfing said:
Incidentally, OOUR, you may already know this, but apparently when the crowd saw Hungary going through their drills and warming up before k.o. at Wembley, many were guffawing, saying “That lot are going to be fagged out before they even start, doing that!”

Yeah, right…

Afterthought: as you know, they had the great Ferenc Puskás. He ended up running a small café in Budapest. I remember reading an interview with him, at that very café, in L'Équipe. A very modest man, not embittered. When you look at footballing show ponies today being paid £200,000 per week! Makes you think, doesn't it?
Click to expand...
One of the great teams, that 1954 World Cup team. It was destroyed by the Hungarian Uprising in 1956, after which many star Hungarian players refused to play for the national team again. If the Hungarian Uprising had not happened in 1956, there is a chance that the team would have gone on to win the World Cup in 1958. World Cup was in Sweden that year, and European teams always tend to do better in European-hosted World Cups
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top