England v Belgium | Friendly | Match Thread

hilts said:
Why do you have to be arrogant to make it and stay there.
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Because the system basically requires it. The truly “humble” kids tend to get less attention (i.e. coaching and promotion) early on, which leads to a filtering effect through out the stages of development.

I certainly won’t claim every top player are arrogant, but I will absolutely stand behind vast majority being so confident as to come of as overestimating their own abilities.

BringBackSwales said:
I think he’s an extremely pleasant and incredibly humble person, he is nowhere near being arrogant
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As I said, I think people are thinking about this sort of arrogance as the type they encounter in cunts at work or on the street.

It’s not the same.
 
Blue and true said:
Sorry mate but that's just waffle. When he starts turning up to training half-cut, or getting into scraps on night outs, we can begin to talk about self-destructive paths.

Does he come across as an arrogant prick? Absolutely. Some of the greatest players ever were self-conceited, it's not new territory.
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Whatever you say, mate.
 
hilts said:
Yeah I've never really gone with the attitude leads to success bollocks. It's more simple than that. Talent will find a sinner as often as a Saint, tis the luck of the draw.
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Arrogant people don't become successful. It requires huge commitment and effort to be the best, as well as talent and the final piece of that is confidence in your ability. Some talk the talk, like Ibrahimovic or come across blunt and slightly rude like Haaland (which I fucking love) but it's largely just a performance for the cameras. In a team sport you don't survive by being arrogant.
 
Crooked_rain said:
It's one of those nonsense phrases

Plenty of greats in sport have been very humble people
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They’ve been humble outside of football.

It’s really not a nonsense phrase.

It’s amazing that one of Rodri’s biggest fans, a fellow Spaniard, is getting so much pushback on calling Rodri arrogant in the way most top level footballers are, whilst also explaining why he is able to channel it for comprehensively positive impact (his other brilliant qualities).
 
hilts said:
I have seen him play for different teams against city and for England If he only has incredible games for Madrid that would be very very odd. I'm starting to think you're related or running his fan club.
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He was excellent against us for Dortmund in the game we won 2-1 in the knockouts and also very good in the first 45 of the return leg in Dortmund until he ran out of puff,but he was about 19 then. He's a very good player, but hopefully he tucks up nicely in Rodri's pocket in a few weeks.
 
John Wayne said:
Adductor muscle seems to be the belief now circulating online.
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Thank you. I just saw it on another thread…

An abductor injury involves the muscles responsible for rotating an arm or leg away from the body, particularly affecting the hip muscles that open the hip out to the side. These injuries can lead to conditions like tendonitis, tendinopathy, and abductor tears, causing pain and difficulty in standing or walking.

Commonly caused by overuse during sports activities involving jumping, abductor injuries can result from muscle imbalances or age-related wear and tear on tendons. Diagnosis involves physical exams and imaging tests like x-rays, ultrasounds, or MRIs. Treatment includes rest, ice, compression, elevation (RICE method), anti-inflammatory medication, rehabilitation exercises, and in severe cases, surgery may be necessary for complete tears.
 
supercity88 said:
Arrogant people don't become successful. It requires huge commitment and effort to be the best, as well as talent and the final piece of that is confidence in your ability. Some talk the talk, like Ibrahimovic or come across blunt and slightly rude like Haaland (which I fucking love) but it's largely just a performance for the cameras. In a team sport you don't survive by being arrogant.
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Arrogance is completely separate from commitment and effort (or selflessness), which I agree are all qualities that are absolutely necessary to become successful in a team sport.

You can be arrogant and have all of those other attributes, as well.

And, in fact, most “successful” people across vocations would be classified by most as arrogant, so I am not sure where you are getting this “arrogant people don’t become successful” thing from.

Arrogance is heavily tied to perseverance, though, especially when it comes to brutal development tracks like becoming a professional footballer (which 99% of people that attempt it wash out of).

Most footballers simply have to have a very healthy (bordering on exaggerated) since of self worth and importance to make it through the gauntlet.

And the ones that don’t need that are usually the children of ex-footballers that get advantages that players from non-football pedigrees do not, hence why they are able to make it through.
 
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Phil1 said:
The big issue for the majority of the talented players is they are all playing their own game. Bellingham is Real Madrid Bellingham and not England. Same with Rice, same with Mainoo the list goes on.
Unless Southgate can gel them and drum it into them this is a team game England will suffer.
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Well that's why great managers are who they are, they can handle a team full of big names, make them gel and make them recognise the manager is the real deal and they trust the manager.

That's why managers like Pep, or Mourinho in the past have won trophies all over the place. That's not simply down to ability to organise a winning team, it's also because these big name players knowing if you put trust in these proven managers and work for them and work for the team you will also win things.

Other than Southgate being an affable fella, he's not going to command the footballing respect for these big players to have complete trust in him.
 
Crooked_rain said:
Well that's why great managers are who they are, they can handle a team full of big names, make them gel and make them recognise the manager is the real deal and they trust the manager.

That's why managers like Pep, or Mourinho in the past have won trophies all over the place. That's not simply down to ability to organise a winning team, it's also because these big name players knowing if you put trust in these proven managers and work for them and work for the team you will also win things.

Other than Southgate being an affable fella, he's not going to command the footballing respect for these big players to have complete trust in him.
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Everything I have read and seen tells me that an international break for England is just a chance for the lads to get together and get away from the kids and the wife for a couple weeks. They spend all their time just having a lads holiday basically. Sat about at St Georges park playing darts and on the playstation.

There is no pattern of play with this team. Southgate just follows the flavor of the month and picks steady eddies who wont say anything to him e.g. Henderson.

How the fuck is Dunk starting for England, when we have the likes of Tomori just sat at home.

He does interview after interview to get the press on his side and rides the gravy train all round the country each weekend doing nothing but eating prawn sandwiches.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Because the system basically requires it. The truly “humble” kids tend to get less attention (i.e. coaching and promotion) early on, which leads to a filtering effect through out the stages of development.

I certainly won’t claim every top player are arrogant, but I will absolutely stand behind vast majority being so confident as to come of as overestimating their own abilities.


As I said, I think people are thinking about this sort of arrogance as the type they encounter in cunts at work or on the street.

It’s not the same.
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We will have to disagree talent and hard work, if anything a coach would prefer the humble kid. Arrogant players get away with it because their talents cannot be ignored.
 
hilts said:
We will have to disagree talent and hard work, if anything a coach would prefer the humble kid. Arrogant players get away with it because their talents cannot be ignored.
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Talent and hard work are absolutely important, we agree on that.

But to get the attention, which gives you the coaching and promotion needed to progress to the next development stage, most kids that aren’t children of ex-footballers or managers, need what people on here call arrogance to make it through the brutal gauntlet. It’s a filtering effect that happens at every stage, up to U18, then the other qualities tend to start becoming dominant.

By then, though, most of the players have the natural arrogance, and keep it to stay at the top.

David Silva, Kev, Kompany, Haaland, Stones, even selfless stalwart Gareth Barry had it. They might be humble off the pitch, but they are arrogant as footballers, because they had/have to be.
 
supercity88 said:
He was excellent against us for Dortmund in the game we won 2-1 in the knockouts and also very good in the first 45 of the return leg in Dortmund until he ran out of puff,but he was about 19 then. He's a very good player, but hopefully he tucks up nicely in Rodri's pocket in a few weeks.
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Good in one and good for a half and not for the other half in another. So not incredible in either :-)

I never said he wasn't good just not incredible because well he isn't. An incredible player needs to wow you lot. Like in wow that was incredible. I can't remember him doing one incredible thing never mind doing it regularly.
 
BringBackSwales said:
Messi and Cruyff do/did not come over as arrogant, nor did Pele. Nor did Colin Bell, Dave Silva, KDB
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They were/are all “arrogant” as footballers, mate.

People seem to be conflating arrogance with selfishness, or just being a ****. But they are separate. Or how they are off the pitch with the way they are on it.

Kev is by all accounts a humble guy away from football. Dave a bit less so ( ;-) ). Bell was, as well.

But as footballers, they absolutely had/have very high opinions of their own ability, bordering on exaggeration. Messi is probably the poster child for that, actually. He is completely different on the pitch and off it (famously so). As was Kun, just ask Sideshow Bob. ;-)

That is what makes Pep such a good manager: he can channel that collection of egos, with all the other brilliant qualities that come with them, in to a cohesive, efficient, brutal machine.
 
SebastianBlue said:
Talent and hard work are absolutely important, as agree on that.

But to get the attention, which gives you the coaching and promotion needed to progress to the next development stage, most kids that aren’t children of ex-footballers or managers, need what people on here call arrogance to make it through the brutal gauntlet.
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So player A

Has great game comes off and thanks you for saying he played well

Player B

Has great game comes off and says i know I was good I'm always good.

You say I like the arrogance that player A will never make it he just not twattish enough.

Horse shit. Coaches would like to fuck off player B but they would end up playing well elsewhere.

We could throw in confidence which I feel we would be more likely to agree on. Arrogance and confidence are close bedfellows but there is a difference.
 
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