Epstein / Andrew Mountbatten Windsor / Maxwell

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gordondaviesmoustache said:
I haven’t blamed her for his conduct, what I’ve said is that she will have helped shape the person that engaged in that conduct.

There is a distinction which you appear to be struggling to appreciate.
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No just dismissing it as totally irrelevant to the point at issue. The Queen bears zero responsibility for her son's actions.
 
oldius said:
She wasn't a volunteer, fella, she was bestowed with immense wealth and privilege as a result of that service. Effectively, it was her job. As a consequence of that job, she was able to give away £12m to protect her son from facing court. In my view, that is not a good look.

I absolutely respect your point that a mother will do what they can to protect their children, so I do not think she is entirely to blame here. He brought this on and appears to have repeatedly abused trafficked minors supplied to him by a convicted sex offender. If this were not the Royal Family, I suspect many more people would not dream of defending them. She may have been a fantastic woman - I have never met her. She may have been highly skilled at her job - I don't know enough about her job to analyse her skillset. She did, however, raise a family who appear not to respect their roles, their marriages, or their debt to the nation.
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What was her job? Put on a 50 million pound hat for the opening of Parliament then tell us we’re going to have to endure some austerity politics.
 
johnny crossan said:
No just dismissing it as totally irrelevant to the point at issue. The Queen bears zero responsibility for her son's actions.
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The fact is that she did not do anything to curtail his well known behavioural excesses and indulge him when she had the power to do so. And please don't tell us she would not have known about his conduct.
 
johnny crossan said:
Well you'll be relieved to know I'm not.
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Just so you know

The response of any decent human should be along the lines of:

He is a sick **** and should be in jail, and those that helped him, defended him, and splashed out 12 million should be there with him.

The list will be long of those who turned a blind eye to Andrews deviant behavior, or excused it away with some mental gymnastics not too far away from what you are trying to do here.

The Queen is amongst the list of those who helped him out
 
johnny crossan said:
True, perhaps Andrew will do everybody a favour an expire before his accusers ever get him into court. Wonder what his two daughters think about their dad? Very nice girls everybody seems to think too.
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Very nice girls everybody seems to think too.,

What great insight / personal experience gives you such confidence in making this generalisation?
 
Lowtower said:
Just so you know

The response of any decent human should be along the lines of:

He is a sick **** and should be in jail, and those that helped him, defended him, and splashed out 12 million should be there with him.

The list will be long of those who turned a blind eye to Andrews deviant behavior, or excused it away with some mental gymnastics not too far away from what you are trying to do here.

The Queen is amongst the list of those who helped him out
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johnnytapia said:
Very nice girls everybody seems to think too.,

What great insight / personal experience gives you such confidence in making this generalisation?
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No great insight or personal experience just listening to people who know them Woman's Hour on Radio 4 this morning.
 
johnny crossan said:
No great insight or personal experience just listening to people who know them Woman's Hour on Radio 4 this morning.
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Ha ha ha fuck me. Some people on a phone in= “everybody” thinks they’re nice.
I’d like a bit more than an endorsement from Ed Stewpot.
 
johnnytapia said:
What was her job? Put on a 50 million pound hat for the opening of Parliament then tell us we’re going to have to endure some austerity politics.
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I am not familiar with the day-to-day job of a working royal, so I am not qualified to comment on that.
I am neutral on the concept of monarchy so I simply judge the people within on their individual behaviour - it isn't a family to respect, IMO.
 
johnny crossan said:
Why don't you quote the second part of that paragraph which is quite specific?
The Queen poured millions of pounds into her son’s civil suit against Giuffre, The Daily Telegraph reported. And, as Andrew’s income is not enough to cover the £12 million ($16.3 million) settlement, she will reportedly be helping to cover those costs too. According to the Daily Mirror, the Queen agreed to contribute £2 million ($2.7 million) as long as she was not connected to any personal payment to Giuffre. Instead, the money will go towards Giuffre’s victim support charity.
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We are going to be hearing about this whole thing for the next 15-20 years me thinks.
 
I reckon the one getting off lightly here is Fergie . I think If someone investigated her, there would be some skeletons in the cupboard that haven't come to light yet . The toe sucking episode would seem tame in comparison .
 
The other thing I find odd about the failure to curb the excesses of Andrew is what role if any did Philip play in all of this. He seems to getting a free ride in all of this. Here is a man who supposedly was straight talking, took no nonsense and had a strong dislike for 2 of his daughter-in- laws yet tolerated his son's appalling behaviour
 
Earlyriser said:
The other thing I find odd about the failure to curb the excesses of Andrew is what role if any did Philip play in all of this. He seems to getting a free ride in all of this. Here is a man who supposedly was straight talking, took no nonsense and had a strong dislike for 2 of his daughter-in- laws yet tolerated his son's appalling behaviour
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Dead man gets free ride?
Do you think he should be dug up or something?
 
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