Etihad atmosphere

[cibaman]

There seems to be a general level of apathy in the fan base in general nowadays, me included. I'm not sure why it has happened or if we are worse than everyone else but it seems the enjoyment of going to the game has been sucked out of people. I think a lot go out of habit now. Maybe that's why some people only turn up to 10/11 games a season when it suits them. Football used to be an escape for the working class man to let his hair down after a long week at work. Now its a lifestyle choice for many and it competes with other activities/family events. Spending £30-40 on something nowadays and then not going doesn't seem to be that big an issue for many. There is a lot of cash splashing around now.

Perhaps pricing hasn't helped. Traffic chaos for night matches, Poor form, poor public transport links, poor car parking system, late kick off time (Why was last night 8pm for example?).

A game during school term that kicks off at 8pm slap bang in the middle of xmas plays week at schools is going to mean lots of kids not going and hence at least 2 empty seats for every kid that doesn't go.

I am not sure what the answer is.

I think its more a case of football fans reverting to type. It's the recent past that's been the exception rather than now.

When I started watching City, most fans paid cash at the gate. Attendances fluctuated quite significantly. People picked and chose which games to attend. The derby always sold out. We'd get 40,000 for other top clubs eg Liverpool, barely 30,000 for a game like yesterday's. I remember 52,000 turning up for Rodney Marsh's debut in a season when the gates varied but were usually closer to 35,000. It was like that more or less throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's.

From the early 90's we witnessed the effects of a classic case of increasing demand coinciding with a period of artificially reduced supply. The introduction of live televised football created, bizarrely in some respects, a surge in demand to watch PL football. At the same time PL stadium capacities were drastically cut as a result of the Taylor Report. This led to a huge surge in sales of seasoncards to comensate for the under supply of seats. And that new generation of seasoncard holders took the view that having paid out for their seasoncards they were damned well going to get full use from them.

Now that fans are accustomed to paying for their seasoncards, they're revaluating whether that means they need to attend every single game. Whether the hassle of getting to midweek games is worth it. People are generally more picky and choosy about how when they are entertained. Football might be different, with greater loyalty to your team, but it was always likely that football fans would become a tad more fickle.

 

[citymad]

I can't see it changing. It's gotten worse since the take over. Perhaps fans have lost an identity with the club now we've got this wealth and we can buy anyone we want. Teams like Everton are working on hard work and an intelligent scouting. The fans can relate to that and they want to support this way of football. Liverpool have their history of shankly, paisley and strong family bonds to pull from for their passion and now they have a manager who they believe in totally. You just have to see the banners about him to see that. The rags have the class of 92 and fergie as a foundation and want to get back there so bad. I'm not sure about Chelsea perhaps it's the charismatic personalitues that have come their way in recent years and the pride of being Londons top club for a while.

Or maybe I'm talking total crap and it really is that darn car park.

 

[bugsyblue]

You've picked the 3 games where I thought the atmosphere was ok, the ref certainly saw to that against Chelsea.

Rubbish. The minute Chelsea's second goal went in it was deathly silent. Obviously any goal in circumstances like that knocks the stuffing out of you but where I sit there was one or two people trying to get the crowd going and even Pep (at 1-1 I think) was trying to get the stand going behind him. We are quick to pass judgement on the players and manager. Very quick to make excuses for ourselves.

 

[bugsyblue]

Last night was bad in terms of those who did not bother to show up for whatever reasons, I can understand it at times due to constant changes in fixture days and kick off times but this game was set ages ago.

As for those leaving, the South Stand is beyond the joke at 82 mins every game. I will only comment on that stand as I sat there. The amount of people who file out is unbelievable. Over a season they must miss approx. 152 mins in actual game time.

is traffic that bad every week? They must all be sat in that traffic together because they all leave early together.

I would say the team needs their support but in general we don't support the team at home, we are garbage at it. I include myself, I start the occasional chant but the apathy makes you give up or the look you get like you are an idiot.

I am fortunate in that I get to most away games and it is miles better but even there we get moaning fuckers saying people are acting daft or are allegedly drunk.

Nail on the head. I'm like you, I hate it but after trying a few times to get people going around me the silence just kills me and I stop trying. Away games I think our fans are great though!

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Rubbish. The minute Chelsea's second goal went in it was deathly silent. Obviously any goal in circumstances like that knocks the stuffing out of you but where I sit there was one or two people trying to get the crowd going and even Pep (at 1-1 I think) was trying to get the stand going behind him. We are quick to pass judgement on the players and manager. Very quick to make excuses for ourselves.

Poppycock

 

[M18CTID]

I can't see it changing. It's gotten worse since the take over. Perhaps fans have lost an identity with the club now we've got this wealth and we can buy anyone we want. Teams like Everton are working on hard work and an intelligent scouting. The fans can relate to that and they want to support this way of football. Liverpool have their history of shankly, paisley and strong family bonds to pull from for their passion and now they have a manager who they believe in totally. You just have to see the banners about him to see that. The rags have the class of 92 and fergie as a foundation and want to get back there so bad. I'm not sure about Chelsea perhaps it's the charismatic personalitues that have come their way in recent years and the pride of being Londons top club for a while.

Or maybe I'm talking total crap and it really is that darn car park.

I wouldn't say you're talking crap but Everton's home atmosphere is every bit as bad as ours - sure, it was rocking a bit the other night but a come from behind win against a good Arsenal side will get most crowds pumping. Everton's away support, while fantastic numbers-wise, is also very quiet - the other week we hardly heard a peep out of their fans until Lukaku put them ahead.

Similarly, United and Liverpool's home support isn't all that it's cracked up to be and the more honest match-going fans of those clubs would readily admit to this. I would add that United's away support is probably the most vocal in the league though due to so many of the same fans getting tickets for their away games and their away following almost entirely made up of 20,30,40-something males with very few women and kids. City's away following has a far bigger cross-section of people - even the away games that don't see many tourists attending will still have loads of families, etc, travelling along with the noisier elements

While I think the club has changed a lot and not all of it for the better, I don't think we have any less of an identity as those other clubs. People are miffed about various things but I saw more people turned off watching City during Pearce's second season than at any other time in my match-going lifetime

 

[ello_jo]

Maybe because people are too busy sat there moaning about the atmosphere..

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I think Mancini tapped into the fan base very well, as can be seen on here, and his charisma along with us chasing down the Rags and toppling Fergie. The chase was something to unify the fans and winning our "firsts" of everything for so many years brought the crowd together, our European journeys and picking up the Poznan, the Neil Young tribute run in the cup, the night against Hamburg, all those things combined created a surge and a strongly unified fan base. Like I said previously it's the Del Boy conundrum from Only Fools, the chase was the fun and engaging part.

Now after several years of Pellegrini and Soriano & co. doing a number of things without real consultation, moving people out of seats, poor pricing strategies at times which have pissed off fans and even though they are later remedied it's too late for some. Leaving early is an easy excuse now, and once it becomes the norm it's difficult to change. The home fortress has long gone, and seeing us lose time after time at home in the past couple of seasons makes it easy for people to leave.

The club can probably come up with all sorts of punitive measures, but fundamentally I think Pep could really do a lot, but he has to show he's actually understanding what the club and fans are which I don't think he does at the moment. I think we admire Pep but there isn't that connection because he hasn't tapped into what makes us tick. He still talks in press conferences about other clubs having more history and we're not on the same level in his eyes, well I think he needs to start releasing carefully considered soundbites to really tap into the fanbase.

Bar going down the route of punishing people for missing too many matches, or leaving early, I think Pep needs to stir something up and the club needs to rally behind it.

Whatever we decide, last night can't be allowed to stay the norm anymore. It has to change and people have to make more effort.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I think Mancini tapped into the fan base very well, as can be seen on here, and his charisma along with us chasing down the Rags and toppling Fergie. The chase was something to unify the fans and winning our "firsts" of everything for so many years brought the crowd together, our European journeys and picking up the Poznan, the Neil Young tribute run in the cup, the night against Hamburg, all those things combined created a surge and a strongly unified fan base. Like I said previously it's the Del Boy conundrum from Only Fools, the chase was the fun and engaging part.

Now after several years of Pellegrini and Soriano & co. doing a number of things without real consultation, moving people out of seats, poor pricing strategies at times which have pissed off fans and even though they are later remedied it's too late for some. Leaving early is an easy excuse now, and once it becomes the norm it's difficult to change. The home fortress has long gone, and seeing us lose time after time at home in the past couple of seasons makes it easy for people to leave.

The club can probably come up with all sorts of punitive measures, but fundamentally I think Pep could really do a lot, but he has to show he's actually understanding what the club and fans are which I don't think he does at the moment. I think we admire Pep but there isn't that connection because he hasn't tapped into what makes us tick. He still talks in press conferences about other clubs having more history and we're not on the same level in his eyes, well I think he needs to start releasing carefully considered soundbites to really tap into the fanbase.

Bar going down the route of punishing people for missing too many matches, or leaving early, I think Pep needs to stir something up and the club needs to rally behind it.

Whatever we decide, last night can't be allowed to stay the norm anymore. It has to change and people have to make more effort.

I agree with lots of the above, but instead of thinking about punishments and "stick", how about some carrot. A discount on next years ST for people who go to more than x number of games perhaps? Or a present of some kind. Or maybe a prize draw at the end of each match or some other incentive, or post-match entertainment of some kind. Free pies or something. I don't know, these are pretty crap ideas, but surely we could come up with something creative.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

I agree with lots of the above, but instead of thinking about punishments and "stick", how about some carrot. A discount on next years ST for people who go to more than x number of games perhaps? Or a present of some kind. Or maybe a prize draw at the end of each match or some other incentive, or post-match entertainment of some kind. Free pies or something. I don't know, these are pretty crap ideas, but surely we could come up with something creative.

oh I wasn't advocating it from my own personal view, but that I think the club may introduce some sort of measure (minimum number of games to qualify for seasoncard renewal was suggested a while ago). It's as much people leaving early as it is them not turning up, I don't really know what to do about that part.

People shouldn't need rewarding for turning up to games for which they've purchased tickets for the entirety, it's basics really. I do think Pep understanding the club and fans better and tapping into it to create a mentality would be the best option.

 

[Manchester33]

I agree with lots of the above, but instead of thinking about punishments and "stick", how about some carrot. A discount on next years ST for people who go to more than x number of games perhaps? Or a present of some kind. Or maybe a prize draw at the end of each match or some other incentive, or post-match entertainment of some kind. Free pies or something. I don't know, these are pretty crap ideas, but surely we could come up with something creative.

I like the idea of scanning your season card somewhere after the game (possibly on the concourse) after the final whistle that gives you, say, 20 'ticket' (loyalty) points. I think it would make season card holders more likely to do it. Also throw in rewards like 10% off next seasons season ticket if you scan half an hour before the game and 5 minutes after it's finished for every prem game.

Another side affect of that is that fans who're more committed to the cause will start to get more points and therefore priority to bigger (away) games!

 

[Chippy_boy]

I like the idea of scanning your season card somewhere after the game (possibly on the concourse) after the final whistle that gives you, say, 20 'ticket' (loyalty) points. I think it would make season card holders more likely to do it. Also throw in rewards like 10% off next seasons season ticket if you scan half an hour before the game and 5 minutes after it's finished for every prem game.

Another side affect of that is that fans who're more committed to the cause will start to get more points and therefore priority to bigger (away) games!

Exactly.

I can understand why people would want to leave early if/when there's nothing to stay FOR, other than a sense of loyalty (which is clearly not very strong in some cases). And seeing droves of fans leaving gives the green light to others who are thinking about leaving and then it just spirals.

If we offered people something positive to stay for, some incentive of some kind, it could end up being self-fulfilling, i.e. people wouldn't see so many leaving and would be less tempted to leave themselves; the atmosphere might improve and people might actually start wanting to stay because they were actually enjoying it. Heaven forbid anyone might actually enjoy watching us.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I think its more a case of football fans reverting to type. It's the recent past that's been the exception rather than now.

When I started watching City, most fans paid cash at the gate. Attendances fluctuated quite significantly. People picked and chose which games to attend. The derby always sold out. We'd get 40,000 for other top clubs eg Liverpool, barely 30,000 for a game like yesterday's. I remember 52,000 turning up for Rodney Marsh's debut in a season when the gates varied but were usually closer to 35,000. It was like that more or less throughout the 60's, 70's and 80's.

From the early 90's we witnessed the effects of a classic case of increasing demand coinciding with a period of artificially reduced supply. The introduction of live televised football created, bizarrely in some respects, a surge in demand to watch PL football. At the same time PL stadium capacities were drastically cut as a result of the Taylor Report. This led to a huge surge in sales of seasoncards to comensate for the under supply of seats. And that new generation of seasoncard holders took the view that having paid out for their seasoncards they were damned well going to get full use from them.

Now that fans are accustomed to paying for their seasoncards, they're revaluating whether that means they need to attend every single game. Whether the hassle of getting to midweek games is worth it. People are generally more picky and choosy about how when they are entertained. Football might be different, with greater loyalty to your team, but it was always likely that football fans would become a tad more fickle.

There is a lot in that. Paying monthly sort of reduces the perceived commitment too. I don't like midweek games I have to say. I would imagine the mother of a 7 yr old kid doesn't like em either!

 

[bugsyblue]

I think Mancini tapped into the fan base very well, as can be seen on here, and his charisma along with us chasing down the Rags and toppling Fergie. The chase was something to unify the fans and winning our "firsts" of everything for so many years brought the crowd together, our European journeys and picking up the Poznan, the Neil Young tribute run in the cup, the night against Hamburg, all those things combined created a surge and a strongly unified fan base. Like I said previously it's the Del Boy conundrum from Only Fools, the chase was the fun and engaging part.

Now after several years of Pellegrini and Soriano & co. doing a number of things without real consultation, moving people out of seats, poor pricing strategies at times which have pissed off fans and even though they are later remedied it's too late for some. Leaving early is an easy excuse now, and once it becomes the norm it's difficult to change. The home fortress has long gone, and seeing us lose time after time at home in the past couple of seasons makes it easy for people to leave.

The club can probably come up with all sorts of punitive measures, but fundamentally I think Pep could really do a lot, but he has to show he's actually understanding what the club and fans are which I don't think he does at the moment. I think we admire Pep but there isn't that connection because he hasn't tapped into what makes us tick. He still talks in press conferences about other clubs having more history and we're not on the same level in his eyes, well I think he needs to start releasing carefully considered soundbites to really tap into the fanbase.

Bar going down the route of punishing people for missing too many matches, or leaving early, I think Pep needs to stir something up and the club needs to rally behind it.

Whatever we decide, last night can't be allowed to stay the norm anymore. It has to change and people have to make more effort.

I completely get your points about the early stages of the investment leading us to galvanising and fighting for the cause, 'together' was our motto and that in time coined 'fight till the end'. But I read pages and pages of excuses from fans on here, with very few actually saying, us, the fans as a whole not individuals, have become pretty shit. Rather than looking at what Pep can do, or what the club can do, shouldn't we be looking at what we can do?

You can blame pricing and all that as much as you want but at the end of the day we have 50odd thousand in attendance most games and once the ref blows the whistle there's absolutely zero reason for us not to back the team.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Exactly.

I can understand why people would want to leave early if/when there's nothing to stay FOR, other than a sense of loyalty (which is clearly not very strong in some cases). And seeing droves of fans leaving gives the green light to others who are thinking about leaving and then it just spirals.

If we offered people something positive to stay for, some incentive of some kind, it could end up being self-fulfilling, i.e. people wouldn't see so many leaving and would be less tempted to leave themselves; the atmosphere might improve and people might actually start wanting to stay because they were actually enjoying it. Heaven forbid anyone might actually enjoy watching us.

It's a novel idea but not sure how they would record the staying to the end bit as they need easy access out of the stadium for the thousands that leave at the same time.

However they could reward attendance.

Saying that people with money are usually not that fussed over missing out on a few quid here and there and there are now lots of people with money at football matches.

A lot of family stand members who get relatively cheap ST on tier 2 don't take their kids and it costs them little to not do so. Kids ST in there are cheap as chips. They pay for one but then 3 adults sit in there so there will always be be empties in there.

 

[Kennedy_probably_has]

Quite like the loyalty point idea, hopefully back date them! I think a lot of people behind the goal in the North Stand leave early because they're in big groups (schools etc) which shows up pretty badly on the tv. It happens everywhere but people leaving City early seems to be the norm for many.

I like to stay and clap the team off but each to their own

 

[Chippy_boy]

How about something as daft as a prize draw on the pitch immediately after the game? £1,000 winner each match would be peanuts to the club, but I'd stick around for a chance of winning a grand. Or make it £5k or £10k. Or 10x £1k prizes. I mean what's that compared to a squad's wages?

Or a holiday or a car every month or something. You could even get sponsors involved and recoup some of the costs. "Tonights prize is a holiday for 4 in Portugal, in conjunction with Thomson Holidays." Or whatever. Do it with a bit of drama and get some fun into the stadium at the end.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

I think Mancini tapped into the fan base very well, as can be seen on here, and his charisma along with us chasing down the Rags and toppling Fergie. The chase was something to unify the fans and winning our "firsts" of everything for so many years brought the crowd together, our European journeys and picking up the Poznan, the Neil Young tribute run in the cup, the night against Hamburg, all those things combined created a surge and a strongly unified fan base. Like I said previously it's the Del Boy conundrum from Only Fools, the chase was the fun and engaging part.

Now after several years of Pellegrini and Soriano & co. doing a number of things without real consultation, moving people out of seats, poor pricing strategies at times which have pissed off fans and even though they are later remedied it's too late for some. Leaving early is an easy excuse now, and once it becomes the norm it's difficult to change. The home fortress has long gone, and seeing us lose time after time at home in the past couple of seasons makes it easy for people to leave.

The club can probably come up with all sorts of punitive measures, but fundamentally I think Pep could really do a lot, but he has to show he's actually understanding what the club and fans are which I don't think he does at the moment. I think we admire Pep but there isn't that connection because he hasn't tapped into what makes us tick. He still talks in press conferences about other clubs having more history and we're not on the same level in his eyes, well I think he needs to start releasing carefully considered soundbites to really tap into the fanbase.

Bar going down the route of punishing people for missing too many matches, or leaving early, I think Pep needs to stir something up and the club needs to rally behind it.

Whatever we decide, last night can't be allowed to stay the norm anymore. It has to change and people have to make more effort.

I agree with this too. A lot of people have mentioned the Aguero moment for us. Was that our getting to the summit of Everest moment and no other climb will compare. I don't feel as connected to the club as I did but I have been shifted out of seats due to cost and been pissed off with CL pricing strategies which made me cancel that scheme this year. Like you say they changed it but it was too late for me.

I do stay until the end 95% of the time due to changing my habits but was an early leaver once, usually on around 90-92 mins. I am not sure why, just habit and it was only a change from car to train that made me change this. Maybe a lot are like this. The early leaving is getting worse though for sure.

Interesting what you say about Pep describing other clubs like that and almost saying we are a smaller club. Maybe that's actually the way many liked it and now we have had some success the quest for more and more isn't as strong for some as it is for others or perhaps the quest is such that it's no longer an enjoyable experience and instead has become stressful when we lose or draw when in previous era's it was almost expected.

 

[ello_jo]

I don't think you can say traffic is an excuse to leave early though. Surely if you're going to any event with 50k+ spectators you're going to understand that the roads will be congested and public transport will be overwhelmed if they're all leaving at the same time - regardless of how good it is.

The two excuses are as follows: 1. (more common in south stand) I'm gonna arrive late and leave early before half time and the end of the match to fit more beers in. WELL WATCH IT IN THE PUB MATE!
2. (more common in the north stand) I'm gonna leave on 80 minutes to beat the traffic. I've got the kids with me and they either can't handle a full game OR they need to be up early for school. WELL IF YOUR KIDS AREN'T CAPABLE OF SITTING THROUGH THE MATCH FOR 90 MINUTES DON'T BRING THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE or WATCH THE BLOODY MATCH FROM THE COMFORT OF YOUR LIVING ROOM IF YOU'RE THAT BOTHERED ABOUT RETURNING THERE.

I think the club sold too many season tickets. We should have limited them to 37k and left 15k (after 2/3k have been given to the away team) for general sale. That way people won't hoard season tickets to go to the big games because they'll have a better chance of going as a one off. Then reduce ticket prices for the lesser games which will appeal to a local fanbase.

When we expand the North Stand I'd suggest keep season tickets at the same amount and leaving the rest for match by match sales.

So you're deciding who does and doesn't have the right to take their kids to a game now? The kids that can't currently sit through the full 90 minutes are the same kids who are going to be supporting the club in 20 years time.

Unless they were told they couldn't go to the game by somebody.

Although they could also sit at home and fill blue moon threads for of moaning dross while your at the game you've been allowed to attend.

That's assuring you were given permission? In fact! Who gives permission to the permission giver? There's a thread if I haven't ever seen one.

 

[Chippy_boy]

A few seconds googling came up with this, in terms of what other clubs / sports do to incentivise fans to stay until the end:

• When Schalke 04’s football team from the German Bundesliga built their new stadium ‘Arena auf Schalke’ (Veltins Arena), the stadium was built with a draught beer system to facilitate better and faster access to beer for the fans. Today, there is a ‘fan party atmosphere’ at the stadium after games and the beer turnover has been increased significantly. Click here to learn more about the stadium.
• Post-game wrap-up interview on court/field/ice is a good way, in which fans can connect with their idols after the game. It will keep the fans in the arena for a longer period of time.
• Contests where fans can win a player autographed item or win access to the locker room.
• Exit couponing where the club provides fans with offers for post-game entertainment (e.g. restaurants).
• A TV or radio show hosted at a sponsor’s pub or restaurant or in one of the lounges at the stadium.
• Post-game parties at Stadium Club/Restaurant.
• Post-match texts with ticket offers for next game.