Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[stony]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Ducker is just another embittered cockroach.

He has to write a balanced article. There are only positives to the academy, but there are question marks. The building creates opportunity, but it leaves questions unanswered.

An objective article should credit City for the construction, but point out that the record to date of producing 1st team players is recently very poor, and the construction in itself guarantees nothing. The bar has been raised extraordinarily high by the standard of the first team pool.

You're not suggesting that, that article was in any way balanced are you Marvin?

 

[flb]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

I was really excited seeing the new developments on TV yesterday. I open my copy of TheTimes today (I only buy it as I'm addicted to the crossword) and see a big article by one James Ducker, "Northern Football Correspondent", who rarely misses a chance to slag City off and whom I have long suspected of being a rag.

There's hardly a good word about the new set-up, only a lot of stuff about how few academy players we have produced, whilst Utd have already this season blooded Blackett & McSomebody, and the new campus will only be any good if it produces first-team players, and that will not be for many years yet.

I finished the article feeling pretty deflated, and what with the other lot scraping a win somehow (again), Kun out for ages and now our new set-up is miles off producing anything yet, I feel like reaching for the single malt already.

Did anyone else read this stuff, or can any tecnnogeek copy a bit out? Or am I out of touch with reality? I just wonder what Ducker would have written had it been his beloved Reds who have done all this.

I shall think up a limerick: There was a reporter called Ducker
A miserable biased old.... (can't think of a rhyme for Ducker)

This is the Ducker article, it is extraordinarily bitter!



It is, first and foremost, a stunning development: vast in its scale, meticulous in its attention to detail and awe-inspiring in its ambition. Long after Sheikh Mansour has moved on to other things, the City Football Academy will stand as a monument to the Abu Dhabi billionaire’s transformation of Manchester City and this previously neglected enclave of the city’s east side.

The new £200 million training complex, which formally opened yesterday a stone’s throw, or rather, a 190-metre walk over an interconnecting bridge from the Etihad Stadium, will serve everything from the first team to the under-6s in addition to almost all the club’s off-field operations.

Take a walking tour around this sprawling, 80-acre site and it is hard to believe that this is the same club Joe Royle, the former City manager, once joked would have a bulging trophy cabinet if only cups were dished out for “cock-ups”. From the 7,000-capacity Academy Stadium to the other 15½ pitches and an academy building that has space to house tired, taxi-servicing parents overnight, to the hydrotherapy pools, multiple gyms and 32 en-suite bedrooms that comprise the first team’s headquarters, it is easy to see how the complex went through 19 different design versions after exhaustive analysis of 70 sporting facilities in nine countries across four continents. Patrick Vieira, the manager of City’s under-21 team, calls it a “no excuses” environment but that is where the more pressing questions start.

Amid myriad statistics, there is one figure that underlines the size of the challenge facing the Barclays Premier League champions as they attempt to develop a conveyor belt of young talent. Since Mansour’s takeover in September 2008, only one academy graduate who had not already won promotion to the first team — Dedryck Boyata — has made more than one top-flight start for City. No English academy graduate who was not already established has achieved that in six years and the most recent member of the Elite Development Squad (EDS) to force his way into Manuel Pellegrini’s plans was José Ángel Pozo, a Spaniard signed from Real Madrid for £1.2 million in 2012. In contrast, eight of the players who featured in Barcelona’s Champions League final triumph over Manchester United in 2011 were products of the Catalan club’s famed La Masia academy, with another two among the unused substitutes.

Survey the “roll of honour” of City first-team graduates that lines one corridor of the academy building and, beyond the omission of Ched Evans, the convicted rapist and former Wales striker who made 26 appearances for the club between 2007 and 2009, what resonates is how stiff a task the club face just trying to deliver one homespun talent who can consistently challenge for a place in Pellegrini’s squad.

When the manager needed a left- footed centre half in the summer, did he turn to Karim Rekik, the promising 20-year-old Holland defender at present in the middle of his second season on loan at PSV Eindhoven? No, City went out and spent £40 million (not £32 million as was originally quoted) on Eliaquim Mangala, a 23-year-old France centre back who may well develop into a world-beater in time but who has endured a tough introduction to English football.

Was it wrong that City wanted to buy Mangala? Of course not, but at what cost does his arrival come to Rekik’s chances of progress at the club? City will dislike the comparison with Manchester United but Louis van Gaal’s promotion of Paddy McNair and Tyler Blackett, 19 and 20-year-old academy graduates respectively, to the first team during his first few months in charge at Old Trafford, albeit in the face of a dreadful injury crisis, does the champions few favours.

And Vieira admits it could be six more years before the academy delivers a homegrown first-team player.

“It could be five years, it can be six, it can be four,” Viera said. “We have a clear idea how we want to develop these young players. We have to be patient, work hard and see who will be the next elite player. The good thing is we have a manager who takes in every day players from the EDS training with the first team. At the moment the gap is massive between under-21 level and first team and we need to bridge that gap.”

Micah Richards was the most recent academy graduate to establish himself as a first-team regular during the post- Abu Dhabi revolution but the defender, on loan at Fiorentina as his City career draws to an end, identified a potentially fatal flaw at the heart of what the club is trying to achieve.

Will Pellegrini and his future successors be prepared to gamble on youth if they are stalked by a persistent fear for their jobs?

“I feel a little bit sorry for the youngsters at City because they have got some really good ones,” Richards said last month. “They are not going to get a chance because whoever is in the managerial role is under pressure to get results.”

Pablo Zabaleta, the Argentinian who dislodged Richards as City’s first-choice right back, is more optimistic and insisted that, for emerging academy talents, the new facility will “100 per cent” help to ease that path to the first team, despite adding the caveat that “we need to be realistic and say that it’s difficult for them”.

How difficult remains to be seen.

His gratuitous (in the context of this article) reference to Ched Evans' rape conviction tells you all you need to know about his mindset when he wrote that article. If he wants to draw comparisons, Southampton would have been much more analogous than united. City are looking to produce truly top talent, something united haven't done for over two decades. His slightly modified "when the Sheikh gets bored" reference in his first paragraph also belies his wishful thinking, although he seems to at least finally acknowledge that we're not going away. This acceptance wasn't always reflected in Ducker's writing output, it should be said.

Also, it is an utter disgrace that a well paid 'northern correspondent' for such an estimable paper as the Times wrongly attributes that 'cup for cock ups' quote to Joe Royle during the tenure of his management at City. It was Francis Lee when he was a player at the club. Fucking unprofessional dilettante. .

The standard of football writers in this country is utterly appalling.

Very true, its all about clicks these days, you used to buy a newspaper over the counter for quality journalism, now its just sensation based fucking rubbish for the masses-in football terms that means pandering to United, Liverpool and Arsenal fans.

 

[blueinsa]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Ducker is just another embittered cockroach.

He has to write a balanced article. There are only positives to the academy, but there are question marks. The building creates opportunity, but it leaves questions unanswered.

An objective article should credit City for the construction, but point out that the record to date of producing 1st team players is recently very poor, and the construction in itself guarantees nothing. The bar has been raised extraordinarily high by the standard of the first team pool.

Stop it Marvin.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Ducker is just another embittered cockroach.

He has to write a balanced article. There are only positives to the academy, but there are question marks. The building creates opportunity, but it leaves questions unanswered.

An objective article should credit City for the construction, but point out that the record to date of producing 1st team players is recently very poor, and the construction in itself guarantees nothing. The bar has been raised extraordinarily high by the standard of the first team pool.

There are not question marks at all.

Almost all of the media stuff done on this, mentions how difficult it can be for players to get into the first team. So if Ducker actually cares about that, then why the fuck doesn't he actually discuss whether this academy increases the chances of that happening, whether there are any players currently on the horizon who have a chance of eventually making the team & what standard they would need to be.

And while he's at it, he could compare whether for instance Tyler Blackett is good enough to get in City's team & whether he will survive at Utd once the chequebook comes out again.

Does he address any of this ? Does he fuck. Why ? Because he doesn't fucking care, one iota.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Ducker is just another embittered cockroach.

He has to write a balanced article. There are only positives to the academy, but there are question marks. The building creates opportunity, but it leaves questions unanswered.

An objective article should credit City for the construction, but point out that the record to date of producing 1st team players is recently very poor, and the construction in itself guarantees nothing. The bar has been raised extraordinarily high by the standard of the first team pool.

Drum Roll Maestro Please....

This years "Proof of the pudding is in the eating" award goes to...

And this years "Yes, But" award goes to.....

And the honoury "They Would Say That Wouldn't They" grand prize....

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Also, it is an utter disgrace that a well paid 'northern correspondent' for such an estimable paper as the Times wrongly attributes that 'cup for cock ups' quote to Joe Royle during the tenure of his management at City. It was Francis Lee when he was a player at the club. Fucking unprofessional dilettante. .

The standard of football writers in this country is utterly appalling.

I wouldn't be remotely surprised if he knew this all along and simply wrote it wrong to piss us off. That whole article was written in a way to convey as much contempt as he could manage without getting hauled over the coals by his editor for it.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Marvin is a Bluemoon treasure.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Ducker is just another embittered cockroach.

He has to write a balanced article. There are only positives to the academy, but there are question marks. The building creates opportunity, but it leaves questions unanswered.

An objective article should credit City for the construction, but point out that the record to date of producing 1st team players is recently very poor, and the construction in itself guarantees nothing. The bar has been raised extraordinarily high by the standard of the first team pool.

I agree an article in The Times should be balanced and objective Marvin. But that one is neither.

 

[BigOscar]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Out of interest, if our academy was already churning out world class homegrown players year after year, why the fuck would we have just spent £150m completely re-doing it? Their logic makes no sense. We've not been producing enough youth players of a high enough quality, so we are taking steps to rectify that. Surely that's just basic common sense?

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

The biggest indictment of this Ducker piece is that it could easily have been written from home (and probably was).

It offers nothing but quotes and stats which have long been in the public domain, from players no longer relevant.

The fact he has also chooses to use Blackett and McNair as a barometer, when he could easily have referenced Pozo's three appearances this season, or Angelino selected for the bench, shows him for what he is.

He obviously believes United would have introduced these players, regardless of their injury list.

As for well-paid? Do me a favour. He's the equivalent of a top-half League One side.

 

[john@staustell]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

The biggest indictment of this Ducker piece is that it could easily have been written from home (and probably was).

It offers nothing but quotes and stats which have long been in the public domain, from players no longer relevant.

The fact he has also chooses to use Blackett and McNair as a barometer, when he could easily have referenced Pozo's three appearances this season, or Angelino selected for the bench, shows him for what he is.

He obviously believes United would have introduced these players, regardless of their injury list.

As for well-paid? Do me a favour. He's the equivalent of a top-half League One side.

I should think he will shut the fuck up about Mcnair after last night.

 

[flb]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

The biggest indictment of this Ducker piece is that it could easily have been written from home (and probably was).

It offers nothing but quotes and stats which have long been in the public domain, from players no longer relevant.

The fact he has also chooses to use Blackett and McNair as a barometer, when he could easily have referenced Pozo's three appearances this season, or Angelino selected for the bench, shows him for what he is.

He obviously believes United would have introduced these players, regardless of their injury list.

As for well-paid? Do me a favour. He's the equivalent of a top-half League One side.

I should think he will shut the fuck up about Mcnair after last night.

I wouldnt hold your breath, it was only when Cleverley went to Villa that people realised how fucking shit he was, he stole a living for 2 seasons before that.

 

[adr2.8i]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

i was under the impression that Mcnair was the next Bobby Moore? ?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

i was under the impression that Mcnair was the next Bobby Moore? ?

Based on the evidence of last night the corpse of Bobby Moore would have been more use than McNair. Anyway, back on topic.

It's legitimate to question whether the CFA graduates will get the chance in the first team as the bar has been raised so much higher than it was a few years ago under Royle, Keegan & Pearce and the stakes are greater. We weren't bothered about finishing top four back then or winning European trophies. Fewer academy graduates get into the first teams of the top clubs these days I'd guess and the ones that do usually need plenty of time to bed in.

Players like Sterling often make an immediate impact but then can fade over time as they're over-played, lose confidence or, like Sterling, they play in a system that affords them plenty of freedom and then that changes to one where they're carrying the burden. There is no magic system that turns academy graduates into first-team regulars and partly these kids have too much too soon and only the most dedicated stand a chance. But by having them close to the first team and playing in a prescribed way that will help them make the transition, then it does give them a very direct motivation.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

The biggest indictment of this Ducker piece is that it could easily have been written from home (and probably was).

It offers nothing but quotes and stats which have long been in the public domain, from players no longer relevant.

The fact he has also chooses to use Blackett and McNair as a barometer, when he could easily have referenced Pozo's three appearances this season, or Angelino selected for the bench, shows him for what he is.

He obviously believes United would have introduced these players, regardless of their injury list.

As for well-paid? Do me a favour. He's the equivalent of a top-half League One side.

I should have said "too well paid".

 

[Chippy_boy]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Out of interest, if our academy was already churning out world class homegrown players year after year, why the fuck would we have just spent £150m completely re-doing it? Their logic makes no sense. We've not been producing enough youth players of a high enough quality, so we are taking steps to rectify that. Surely that's just basic common sense?

To be honest I don't agree with that. Even when something is working well, you still need to keep investing to make sure it stays working well. And the academy is not about any reflection that we haven't been doing a good enough job on developing talent.

The isssue is, since the takeover we have had to move like lightening to get City to the top of the tree before the FFP drawbridge came down. We were an unattractive club to the outsider and we had no choice but to go for top quality players and initially at least pay over the odds for them. We simply did not have the luxury of being able to let a bunch of youngsters try to slowly find their feet at the top level, we needed instant results and that's what drove the tactics early on.

But developing young talent has always been part of the strategy. It's just taken 6 years to bring this whole thing to fruition. And when you look at the meticulous detail and planning that's gone into it, you can see why it's taken so long. There's been so many stakeholders to get on board and so many design considerations. But now it's finally here - what a marvellous time to be a City supporter. In a couple of years I will have been watching city for 50 years, and I've seen some incredible things in my time, but I never in my wildest dreams thought I would ever see anything like what we are witnessing.

(And sod the "watery eyes" watching the video on the OS yesterday - I full on blubbed!)

 

[Neville Kneville]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

At the time of the takeover, most of the academy talent we had, was flawed in some way (some frighteningly so as we have found out in recent years).

Some had ability but were missing in many other respects. One of the biggest differences now, is not just ability, it's football intelligence. The physical or athletic stuff matters quite a lot in the Premier League particularly for defenders etc, & that may be the thing which bars quite a few from succeeding in the future, but most of the kids who appear in the next few years, will be much much smarter as footballers, than even the most talented ones from the recent past.

And that incudes the English kids, who play more like Europeans rather than looking at their own feet & charging head first or whacking long balls everywhere to show off .

Next time we get a kid who has skill, & bit of pace & can handle the physicality, chances are he will also be an itelligent footballer, who understands all about pass & move, & that's what will give him a better chance of making it at City, than the kids we have had in recent times.

 

[Carstairs]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

At the time of the takeover, most of the academy talent we had, was flawed in some way (some frighteningly so as we have found out in recent years).

Some had ability but were missing in many other respects. One of the biggest differences now, is not just ability, it's football intelligence. The physical or athletic stuff matters quite a lot in the Premier League particularly for defenders etc, & that may be the thing which bars quite a few from succeeding in the future, but most of the kids who appear in the next few years, will be much much smarter as footballers, than even the most talented ones from the recent past.

And that incudes the English kids, who play more like Europeans rather than looking at their own feet & charging head first or whacking long balls everywhere to show off .

Next time we get a kid who has skill, & bit of pace & can handle the physicality, chances are he will also be an itelligent footballer, who understands all about pass & move, & that's what will give him a better chance of making it at City, than the kids we have had in recent times.

Holistic, innit! ;)

 

[blueyorkie]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

In short Ducker says City have spent £200m on the CFA, if they don't produce players who go into the first team its a waste. Genius, why does he think we have invested in the CFA, to think he gets paid for this rubbish. Furthermore we have to lower the quality of our team to accommodate the likes of Blackett & MacNair, wow, just wow!

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Re: Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Threa

Ducker is a disrespectful motherfucker.