Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Piccadilly is home to bus, train and coach stations. It's the nearest part of the City centre with Ashton Old Road leading almost directly there.

I'd add a new bus route. If you go down Bradford road, you'd then cross Great Ancoats and could go direct to Piccadilly station by going on to Store St, or you could go along Great Ancoats St (which is where the 216 goes).

This bus route may already exist, but if doesn't looks good for the Arena. I think I've got its location right (red box)?

I think it's too complicated to have some buses going to Victoria Station and some to Piccadilly Station.

It makes no sense for those coming from the north or northeast to go west first then change to another mode of transport amidst the queues. It was a comment on an idea to improve walking and cycling in the main, but if that's the proposals I'd keep on driving.

I sent off my comments to those involved anyway but doubt I'll hear back.

 

[jrb]

Scouse expansion.

The current proposals would see the capacity of the Anfield Road Stand increase by around 7,000 seats, the majority of which will be general admission, with some sports bar/lounge hospitality being offered.

The Scousers are getting giddy about that fact. Until the reality of paying FSG matchday ticket prices dawns on them. More Norwegians, tourists, etc, while the local Scousers keep on getting priced out.

So FSG are keeping season tickets as low as they can so Liverpool fans have no option but to buy matchday tickets at matchday ticket prices.

A very cute and cynical ploy by FSG of increasing matchday revenues. What American sports francise fantastic owners, they are!

12. £9. Very limited number of tickets. Don’t be fooled.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

And if I was sitting on City's side of the table I'd be telling them to piss off. Metrolink receive a significant income from City as it is via fans paying, for what at times is a not very good service. In fact that Ashton line is probably the least used route, apart from City home games, so they should be thankful for the match day revenue.

That's a reasonable point to make but I've done fag packet estimates of the annual fare income from match going fans and I reckon it is probably in the region of 250K per annum. As each tram costs around £2.6m plus there's the costs of the driver, platform staff and other running costs I don't think TfGM is making much profit from match days.

On the other hand, it's a well established feature of our planning system that property developers and landowners contribute to the costs of transport infrastructure upgrades when their developments will put more pressure on the system.

If 20,0000 concert attenders and 55,000 match fans are trying to get the same place at the same time this certainly will put a lot of extra pressure on the transport system. I am thinking how much worse it is for evening games when there is a full house vs say 45K for a CL game. An extra 20K on top of 55K will load on a lot of extra inconvenience for fans and people living in the local area.

I don't blame the developer for wanting to spend as little as possible on infrastructure, but this side of them getting planning permission is the best chance to get them to commit to making a meaningful contribution. I include City in this because they are the landowners and the value of their land investment will increase if the public transport system improves (e.g. it would make it easier for them to get permission later on for high density development on the collar site and other land waiting to be developed).

Otherwise the costs fall entirely on the local authorities and TfGM (and probably a funding bid to central Govt).

The scenario I worry about is that the Arena development gets the nod with extra minimal contribution and as a result we have to wait a long time for an upgrade while the local authorities and TfGM try to find the money. The people who suffer the most in that scenario are the fans waiting for an inadequate number of trams to turn up.

There are times when the commercial interests of City and the best interests of match-going fans don't exactly coincide and this is probably one of them.

 

[Marvin]

Scouse expansion.

The current proposals would see the capacity of the Anfield Road Stand increase by around 7,000 seats, the majority of which will be general admission, with some sports bar/lounge hospitality being offered.

The Scousers are getting giddy about that fact. Until the reality of paying FSG matchday ticket prices dawns on them. More Norwegians, tourists, etc, while the local Scousers keep on getting priced out.

So FSG are keeping season tickets as low as they can so Liverpool fans have no option but to buy matchday tickets at matchday ticket prices.

A very cute and cynical ploy by FSG of increasing matchday revenues. What American sports francise fantastic owners, they are!

12. £9. Very limited number of tickets. Don’t be fooled.

The match day prices are no different to ours but as you say they keep their season ticket numbers low. All designed to maximise the amount of money they can take from fans.

I think our board would do exactly the same if they could. Indeed they probably will. We operate in the same league as they do, according to the same values and principles so what makes you think City will be any different in the long term?

 

[Deleted member 77198]

The arena plans mention shuttle buses and an organised taxi rank. Why can't we have that at the stadium now? It would make a huge difference.

The simple answer to that is because the people who would make the decisions for these things at City don’t care.

They aren’t bothered about losing long standing fans through price increases and aren’t bothered about how long or difficult it is for people who go to get to/from the stadium.

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

Scouse expansion.

The current proposals would see the capacity of the Anfield Road Stand increase by around 7,000 seats, the majority of which will be general admission, with some sports bar/lounge hospitality being offered.

The Scousers are getting giddy about that fact. Until the reality of paying FSG matchday ticket prices dawns on them. More Norwegians, tourists, etc, while the local Scousers keep on getting priced out.

So FSG are keeping season tickets as low as they can so Liverpool fans have no option but to buy matchday tickets at matchday ticket prices.

A very cute and cynical ploy by FSG of increasing matchday revenues. What American sports francise fantastic owners, they are!

12. £9. Very limited number of tickets. Don’t be fooled.

Say what you want but my seat was £64.50 v Chelsea in 137 ffs!

 

[mrtwiceaseason]

The match day prices are no different to ours but as you say they keep their season ticket numbers low. All designed to maximise the amount of money they can take from fans.

I think our board would do exactly the same if they could. Indeed they probably will. We operate in the same league as they do, according to the same values and principles so what makes you think City will be any different in the long term?

From memory think the dippers have 26k season ticket holders

 

[Roachy]

That's a reasonable point to make but I've done fag packet estimates of the annual fare income from match going fans and I reckon it is probably in the region of 250K per annum. As each tram costs around £2.6m plus there's the costs of the driver, platform staff and other running costs I don't think TfGM is making much profit from match days.

On the other hand, it's a well established feature of our planning system that property developers and landowners contribute to the costs of transport infrastructure upgrades when their developments will put more pressure on the system.

If 20,0000 concert attenders and 55,000 match fans are trying to get the same place at the same time this certainly will put a lot of extra pressure on the transport system. I am thinking how much worse it is for evening games when there is a full house vs say 45K for a CL game. An extra 20K on top of 55K will load on a lot of extra inconvenience for fans and people living in the local area.

I don't blame the developer for wanting to spend as little as possible on infrastructure, but this side of them getting planning permission is the best chance to get them to commit to making a meaningful contribution. I include City in this because they are the landowners and the value of their land investment will increase if the public transport system improves (e.g. it would make it easier for them to get permission later on for high density development on the collar site and other land waiting to be developed).

Otherwise the costs fall entirely on the local authorities and TfGM (and probably a funding bid to central Govt).

The scenario I worry about is that the Arena development gets the nod with extra minimal contribution and as a result we have to wait a long time for an upgrade while the local authorities and TfGM try to find the money. The people who suffer the most in that scenario are the fans waiting for an inadequate number of trams to turn up.

There are times when the commercial interests of City and the best interests of match-going fans don't exactly coincide and this is probably one of them.

Out of interest, what was your fag packet calculation. The £2.6m tram cost is irrelevant to match days and concerts as they will servicing the network all year round and not just for these events.

 

[NeilYoungIsBack]

Out of interest, what was your fag packet calculation. The £2.6m tram cost is irrelevant to match days and concerts as they will servicing the network all year round and not just for these events.

25 match days x 3,500 people buying a return ticket x £2.80 per ticket.

I know it is only £2.60 from Piccadilly but it is £3 from Ashton where I sometimes catch the tram. Obviously kids pay less.

The 3,500 users is pure guesswork. It might be more but then again my average ticket price is possibly too high. I suspect some users crammed on the trams don't pay anything (I've never once had my ticket checked on the way to the stadium).

 

[Deleted member 77198]

The match day prices are no different to ours but as you say they keep their season ticket numbers low. All designed to maximise the amount of money they can take from fans.

I think our board would do exactly the same if they could. Indeed they probably will. We operate in the same league as they do, according to the same values and principles so what makes you think City will be any different in the long term?

I think they maximise their corporates as well though, whereas I think we’ve all heard that City are struggling to do that.

 

[Marvin]

I think they maximise their corporates as well though, whereas I think we’ve all heard that City are struggling to do that.

Largely hearsay? To my knowledge clubs don't publish and breakdown their match-day income.

Man Utd's match-day income is double City's and that's been put down to their corporate hospitality offering. I hope that's true, because that market is going to be decimated if they miss out of CL football again and have another bad season. City should be able to hijack Man Utd's box holders. Financial services companies always have boxes and give the seats as perks for guests / staff. Who wants to watch Man Utd v Astana?

Man City should give Ed Woodward a bonus.

 

[Roachy]

25 match days x 3,500 people buying a return ticket x £2.80 per ticket.

I know it is only £2.60 from Piccadilly but it is £3 from Ashton where I sometimes catch the tram. Obviously kids pay less.

The 3,500 users is pure guesswork. It might be more but then again my average ticket price is possibly too high. I suspect some users crammed on the trams don't pay anything (I've never once had my ticket checked on the way to the stadium).

You've never endured the Alty line then. I think your figures are out. I suspect more people are using the tram and paying more.

 

[Centurions]

The match day prices are no different to ours but as you say they keep their season ticket numbers low. All designed to maximise the amount of money they can take from fans.

I think our board would do exactly the same if they could. Indeed they probably will. We operate in the same league as they do, according to the same values and principles so what makes you think City will be any different in the long term?

Don't Liverpool have fixed pricing though whereas we lower the price dependant on team and occasion?

 

[Marvin]

Don't Liverpool have fixed pricing though whereas we lower the price dependant on team and occasion?

Appears so from JRB's price-list. You could just as well say City raise their price dependent on the team. Their league prices look similar to our average - wont be much in it. But the difference is that they have 25,000 paying match-day prices whereas we have about 5,000.

Which is better? Depends whether you have a fan's hat or an accountant's hat.

 

[jrb]

Will be interesting to see how the crowds hold up during this blip.

Obviously the derby is sold out, but with Christmas and New Year coming up, the attendances going forward could be lower?

 

[HelloCity]

Will be interesting to see how the crowds hold up during this blip.

Obviously the derby is sold out, but with Christmas and New Year coming up, the attendances going forward could be lower?

Most of the tickets have already been sold. They’re on sale now from the summer.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Most of the tickets have already been sold. They’re on sale now from the summer.

I think that’s a mistake doing that.

It gives people time to decide not to go and think “oh well I already paid for this months ago and don’t miss the money now”.

 

[HelloCity]

I think that’s a mistake doing that.

It gives people time to decide not to go and think “oh well I already paid for this months ago and don’t miss the money now”.

People can return the tickets and most people who buy one off tickets do come to the games. It’s season ticket holders who miss games after already paying in the main. It does look like the numbers are reducing on this though.

 

[UUJblue]

25 match days x 3,500 people buying a return ticket x £2.80 per ticket.

I know it is only £2.60 from Piccadilly but it is £3 from Ashton where I sometimes catch the tram. Obviously kids pay less.

The 3,500 users is pure guesswork. It might be more but then again my average ticket price is possibly too high. I suspect some users crammed on the trams don't pay anything (I've never once had my ticket checked on the way to the stadium).

Yeah i think 10/15k use the tram out to the ground at least? plus as i think i have had my ticket checked once in maybe 50 journeys over the seasons. They force you to buy one at Picc but you can get on at other stations no issue.

 

[Marvin]

Yeah i think 10/15k use the tram out to the ground at least? plus as i think i have had my ticket checked once in maybe 50 journeys over the seasons. They force you to buy one at Picc but you can get on at other stations no issue.

No way mate. Tram traffic is minor.

I think capacity is around 200 and according to their timetable they run every 12 minutes on a weekend. Maybe they might put on extra carriages and double the service on a match-day, but you're still talking very low numbers.