FA confirm Southgate will stay on until after Euro 2024 (p 101)

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SebastianBlue said:
Southgate’s record thus far:

2018 World Cup: Semifinal
2019 Nations League: Third Place
2020 Euros: Runners Up
2021 Nations League: Relegated to League B
2022 World Cup: Quarterfinal
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Although not a bad record by any means it’s still 5 tournaments and no win.

I think he’s “alright” but not the man to win us tournaments.

The problem is, who do you replace him with?
 
domalino said:
Why is Maguire the spine and not John Stones?

Why Henderson (who's been in and out of the side) and not Rice & Bellingham, who start every game?

Can you not at least pretend to discuss this in good faith?
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Maguire and Henderson should not be in that team, in my humble opinion. Yet they almost always are. Kane, well, I think there should be someone playing centerforward, he plays everywhere, just like he does with Tottenham. Why do you question my good faith?
 
Jazzman said:
I think the problem is it could have been better. He has a lot of good footballers at his disposal, yet does not use them well. His spine is Maguire, Henderson and Kane. 2 donkeys and 1 ageing forward. It is just stoneage for me.
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I think Southgate did well in his early years in building the squad. It is easy to forget how much of a shambles the England set-up was at that time. But he has not kicked on and appears to have found his limit tactically. Personally I think England have underperformed at this World Cup which is one of the weakest technically (despite some exciting matches) I have ever seen. It was an easy draw and, despite media pundits building up the current French team, they are no great shakes. The bar is being set too low by the FA and the sycophants in the UK media.
 
Jazzman said:
I think the problem is it could have been better. He has a lot of good footballers at his disposal, yet does not use them well. His spine is Maguire, Henderson and Kane. 2 donkeys and 1 ageing forward. It is just stoneage for me.
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You and I agree.
 
domalino said:
You are dealing entirely in result based thinking, which is the worst possible way to run any football team.

Why has Pep failed to win the CL for 9 consecutive seasons? Is he a worse manager than everyone who did? No. Football doesn’t work like that.

As I see it the difference in opinion here is one of expectation. You think England not winning means England have failed.

I think the best countries in the world (Brazil, Germany, Italy) lose 80-95% of tournaments they enter, and job of the England manager is to get the side to a point where they’re good enough that they have a good chance of winning. You do that for long enough and eventually you win. That’s what will happen with City and the Champions League.

It’s an incredibly high variance competition. Luck, the draw, and unmitigated circumstances dominate.


So with that said...IMO England are good enough to win a major tournament now, which means Southgate is doing his job. They weren’t good enough quality wise or mentally in the 90s or 00s or the 10s and the managers were failing.

There was IMO major progress between the Euro final last year, where he went with the back 5 out of fear and the team clammed up for 60 minutes, and yesterday where they played well.

So I don’t feel the need to rip everything up. If he chooses to leave and they manage to get Tuchel, I won’t be unhappy, he will probably be good enough to carry on Southgate’s progress, but he doesn’t *need* to go, and there are very few genuine candidates who would do better.
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You are arguing against a point I have not made.

I am only assessing Southgate’s tenure based on a *body* of results and against the mandate of his position.

Pep has won many trophies outside of the CL, over many seasons, with different teams in different leagues, hence why no reasonable person would characterise him a failure.

Southgate has demonstratively not done that.

But you are right, we are never going to agree on this subject if you are arguing that the ultimate goal of being the manager of a *top* international team is not to win international tournaments but simply to make their team more competitive, until presumably such time as a manager that has the tactical nous to actually win a tournament comes along.

Edit: I did also want to say I think you are making a mistake with a comparison between club management and international management (especially of a “top” international team). They are very, very different beasts. And I am assessing Southgate’s tenure—and whether he should remain England’s manager—based on the tenets of international management.
 
International football has been left behind by club football. That’s the problem for me. They’re flogging a shite product to death. The standard is abysmal so they fluff it up with shiny lights and tinsel. It will only continue get worse while club football improves. They should get rid of it imo.
 
Stoned Rose said:
Although not a bad record by any means it’s still 5 tournaments and no win.

I think he’s “alright” but not the man to win us tournaments.

The problem is, who do you replace him with?
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I think, as much as people are making the argument that we were unlucky in this tournament, and so the results curve is not quite as bad as it looks, there’s a case to be made we were lucky to have gotten to the final in the Euros, which means the results curve may even be more flat than it appears.

I think he has taken England as far as he can go. He can stay manager and we’ll be competitive, but we’re unlikely to win anything because he lacks the tactical nous the very best international managers have (and which is required to win limited match tournaments where you can’t brute force over a larger number of games, like in league play).
 
The football in the first half by England was laboured and slow combine that with hitting long balls to Kane,Saka and Foden these players need it to the feet and in the second half we was very much the better team. We have said about it in the past about Pep, don’t worry how the opponents are gonna set out play to our strengths as we did in the 2 half and France couldn’t deal with us.
 
SCEtoAUX said:
Just been looking back at our results over the last couple of decades. As far as I can tell we have never won a game, group or knockout, against a team ranked higher than us at the time.

Anyone got a comment on that? I could well be wrong.

Edit to add: Forgot that we beat Argentina 1-0 in 2002, but that's over two decades ago.
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I have mentioned that several times over the years. The waistcoat has done well brigade don't have an answer so they duck it.

One did try and big up Germany but it was widely laughed at.
 
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City_Sean said:
I'm not a fan of Southgate and have been highly critical of him. But I thought England were very good last night, everyone on the pitch played well and we had the better of a very good France side for large periods.

I think Southgate has took us as far as he can, but like I say I think last night we were largely excellent.
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Your expectations are too low mate
 
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