False 9

[Tugay One Cup]

LOL @ calling it shorthand, and you wrote more than me to describe it :-)

That's the single point I'm trying to make though. It's a two syllable description of a specific role within the team; nothing more, nothing less. As such, I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with it.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

That's bollocks.

That's the single point I'm trying to make though. It's a two syllable description of a specific role within the team; nothing more, nothing less. As such, I'm not sure why anyone would take issue with it.

Because it's pretentious bollocks. All it means is telling a player to sit back and make a pass if possible or necessary to someone in or near the box, and you'd day all that anyway!! What's wrong with "central attacking mid" or "deep striker (*predictive text... that said deep stroker then, oo-er!!)", fact of the matter is this. It isn't a specific role because depending where the ball is, up to 7 outfield players can /should be able to do it. It means nothing. It means someone who can play a pass, which they are paid handsomely to do just that, to the correct teammate to score a goal. Working as a team, they do that without requirement for the term false fucking 9, it's fucking bullshit and you're way overthinking it. That's why it's shite terminology.

 

[Terra Passenger]

That's bollocks. Because it's pretentious bollocks. All it means is telling a player to sit back and make a pass if possible or necessary to someone in or near the box, and you'd day all that anyway!! What's wrong with "central attacking mid" or "deep striker (*predictive text... that said deep stroker then, oo-er!!)", fact of the matter is this. It isn't a specific role because depending where the ball is, up to 7 outfield players can /should be able to do it. It means nothing. It means someone who can play a pass, which they are paid handsomely to do just that, to the correct teammate to score a goal. Working as a team, they do that without requirement for the term false fucking 9, it's fucking bullshit and you're way overthinking it. That's why it's shite terminology.

So your understanding of "false 9" is anyone who plays an attacking role in between the lines. This is not, in fact, what the term means.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

So your understanding of "false 9" is anyone who plays an attacking role in between the lines. This is not, in fact, what the term means.

I think you already know what my understanding of a false 9 is, but if you don't, here's a clue. It's only fresh from a bovine arse.

 

[Shaelumstash]

I know you're not trying to, but you ain't gonna convince me. Properly coached, the entire 11 should know what they need to do to achieve a result without bullshit terms such as this. If we played Tevez behind Aguero, then Aguero behind Dzeko, then Silva behind Aguero and said to him "play false 9", I love Sergio (he split from Maradona's daughter the same time I split with my ex, after making me cry for another reason a year before), but you'd be met with "Que??"

Let them work hard in training, then just play. It's unnecessary to label what they do in an attempt to understand it.

LOL @ calling it shorthand, and you wrote more than me to describe it :-)

Why do human beings have names for anything? What's the point? If I said "The bald chap, good looking with a beard, used to manage Barcelona and Bayern Munich and now he's the manager of Manchester City". You'd know who I was talking about. But it's much easier to say "Guardiola".

Similarly, in the press or on a football forum, it's much easier to just call it "false 9" than to explain it every single time. That's the whole purpose of giving something a name, to make it easier to communicate.

I don't really love the "false 9" term, but I don't know a better one to describe the role. I don't think it's pretentious or anoracky to use it, there isn't really an alternative name as far as I know? Or is the very idea of giving it a name pretentious? How about goalkeeper? Is that pretentious? Or half back, or full back, or box to box midfielder or number 8, or inside forward, or number 10, or outside forward or winger? Are they pretentious terms?

Terms change over time as the game evolves, nothing pretentious about it, that's just how the English language develops.

 

[franksinatra]

That's bollocks. Because it's pretentious bollocks. All it means is telling a player to sit back and make a pass if possible or necessary to someone in or near the box, and you'd day all that anyway!! What's wrong with "central attacking mid" or "deep striker (*predictive text... that said deep stroker then, oo-er!!)", fact of the matter is this. It isn't a specific role because depending where the ball is, up to 7 outfield players can /should be able to do it. It means nothing. It means someone who can play a pass, which they are paid handsomely to do just that, to the correct teammate to score a goal. Working as a team, they do that without requirement for the term false fucking 9, it's fucking bullshit and you're way overthinking it. That's why it's shite terminology.

Christ next you will be telling is 'its just a game with eleven men kicking a ball between two sticks'.

Its given a different name because the role in the team is completely different and likelihood a false 9 and 9 have completely different skillsets.

A typical 9 plays off the last central defender aiming to exploit the space behind (Vardy) or as a target man (Crouch) fundamentally they play with there backs to the opposition goal and play off the shoulder of the last man

The false nine role is to find the space ball between the two lines, link the play and attack the two centre halfs. Players like Messi, Silva are suited to the false nine role which requires a completely different skillsets to a traditional nine.

You may think it is easy and that players should be able to play the pass but managers like Pep devise tactics to ensure the likes of Kdb or Silva (interiors in our system) find this space and are the players who most frequently play the most important pass of the move.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

Why do human beings have names for anything? What's the point? If I said "The bald chap, good looking with a beard, used to manage Barcelona and Bayern Munich and now he's the manager of Manchester City". You'd know who I was talking about. But it's much easier to say "Guardiola".

Similarly, in the press or on a football forum, it's much easier to just call it "false 9" than to explain it every single time. That's the whole purpose of giving something a name, to make it easier to communicate.

I don't really love the "false 9" term, but I don't know a better one to describe the role. I don't think it's pretentious or anoracky to use it, there isn't really an alternative name as far as I know? Or is the very idea of giving it a name pretentious? How about goalkeeper? Is that pretentious? Or half back, or full back, or box to box midfielder or number 8, or inside forward, or number 10, or outside forward or winger? Are they pretentious terms?

Terms change over time as the game evolves, nothing pretentious about it, that's just how the English language develops.

You're extrapolating from what I said, something that doesn't exist. I'm not gonna call it a false 9 and you can call it what you like. Whilst playing, I'll pass to the person in the best space or shoot. Whilst watching, I'll say something like "he's sitting back today" something along those lines. I will never ever use false 9 to describe a football players position. I might at poker to trick a rookie.

As it goes, not really a fan of any of those terms you mentioned. Keeper, defenders, midfielders, forwards and wingers. All logically interchangeable as long as everyone knows what to do on matchday. We've got examples in our squad of this.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

Christ next you will be telling is 'its just a game with eleven men kicking a ball between two sticks'.

Its given a different name because the role in the team is completely different and likelihood a false 9 and 9 have completely different skillsets.

A typical 9 plays off the last central defender aiming to exploit the space behind (Vardy) or as a target man (Crouch) fundamentally they play with there backs to the opposition goal and play off the shoulder of the last man

The false nine role is to find the space ball between the two lines, link the play and attack the two centre halfs. Players like Messi, Silva are suited to the false nine role which requires a completely different skillsets to a traditional nine.

You may think it is easy and that players should be able to play the pass but managers like Pep devise tactics to ensure the likes of Kdb or Silva (interiors in our system) find this space and are the players who most frequently play the most important pass of the move.

I read a quote from guardiola before Pellers joined, saying to pass in triangles, always keep two passing options open. Saw it in its the following season. I know tactics aren't black and white, but imho as a game it's being made needlessly complicated with terms like false 9

 

[HellasLEAF]

push KDB up the field. don't think we'll miss a beat really.

 

[franksinatra]

I read a quote from guardiola before Pellers joined, saying to pass in triangles, always keep two passing options open. Saw it in its the following season. I know tactics aren't black and white, but imho as a game it's being made needlessly complicated with terms like false 9

I think it has become more complicated as analysis of sides and the rewards far exceed anything historically so all managers are looking at the minutest details for competitive advantage.

The term is just an easy way of differentiating between the role a player like Messi/Silva playing as a forward and a player like Peter Crouch.

 

[Shaelumstash]

You're extrapolating from what I said, something that doesn't exist. I'm not gonna call it a false 9 and you can call it what you like. Whilst playing, I'll pass to the person in the best space or shoot. Whilst watching, I'll say something like "he's sitting back today" something along those lines. I will never ever use false 9 to describe a football players position. I might at poker to trick a rookie.

As it goes, not really a fan of any of those terms you mentioned. Keeper, defenders, midfielders, forwards and wingers. All logically interchangeable as long as everyone knows what to do on matchday. We've got examples in our squad of this.

Yeh I think the specific instructions the team are given is a slightly different issue than the accepted name for positions on a football pitch isn't it?

So let me get this right, you're not a fan of terms like full back or winger? Seems a bit strange.

Just because players are fluid and move around, it doesn't mean they don't have a position. If someone was to say what position does Gael Clichy play you wouldn't say "Oh it's fluid, he plays towards our back line, predominently on the left, but he does sometimes drift in to central midfield and sometimes even overlaps down the left hand side of the pitch in to the oppositions penalty area"

You'd say he plays left back.

In English it's just easier and more efficient to give things a name.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Can anyone give an example that doesnt fkin involve Messi? I mean I googled it, found the link, it says what most people are pasting here. and tbh reading it shows me nothing. Just adding the word Messi onto a tactical phrase doesnt make it some sort of magic that we know nothing about.

My answer.... anyone in our team. Anyone is able to pretend to be in attack, pull the defenders out of shape, and allow other midfielders to exploit the gaps. In fact we have already done it previously.

My question is why? Why do we want to know this?

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Yeh I think the specific instructions the team are given is a slightly different issue than the accepted name for positions on a football pitch isn't it?

So let me get this right, you're not a fan of terms like full back or winger? Seems a bit strange.

Just because players are fluid and move around, it doesn't mean they don't have a position. If someone was to say what position does Gael Clichy play you wouldn't say "Oh it's fluid, he plays towards our back line, predominently on the left, but he does sometimes drift in to central midfield and sometimes even overlaps down the left hand side of the pitch in to the oppositions penalty area"

You'd say he plays left back.

In English it's just easier and more efficient to give things a name.

The point he is making is that the terms 'Keeper, defenders, midfielders, forwards and wingers' are all widely understood, simple and used with consistancy. A false 9 means so many different things as to make it useless. You just have to look at the range of players that get mentioned to see the point.

 

[Shaelumstash]

The point he is making is that the terms 'Keeper, defenders, midfielders, forwards and wingers' are all widely understood, simple and used with consistancy. A false 9 means so many different things as to make it useless. You just have to look at the range of players that get mentioned to see the point.

He went on to say he doesn't much like terms like full back and winger.

Everyone knows that players move around the pitch, but the idea that full backs and wingers are pretentious terms is just absurd.

Names for positions just makes it easier to understand approximately where on the pitch a player plays and roughly his role in the team.

If you asked where Rooney played on Saturday and I said "Forward" you'd be none the wiser. If I said "as a number 9" You'd know he was leading the line. If I said "as a number 10" you'd know he was a bit deeper with a player in front of him. If I said left wing you'd know he was playing on the left etc.

That's not to say he was fixed in any one position for the entire game, but it's giving you a rough idea as to his role that day. Do you think footballers and coaches would just say "We expect Rooney to play as a 'Forward' in the derby, so just figure it out how to deal with him". No, do they balls.

That's the reason names for positions exist, to make it simplified and easier to communicate quickly. Saying "Forward" is too unspecific.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

He went on to say he doesn't much like terms like full back and winger.

Everyone knows that players move around the pitch, but the idea that full backs and wingers are pretentious terms is just absurd.

Names for positions just makes it easier to understand approximately where on the pitch a player plays and roughly his role in the team.

If you asked where Rooney played on Saturday and I said "Forward" you'd be none the wiser. If I said "as a number 9" You'd know he was leading the line. If I said "as a number 10" you'd know he was a bit deeper with a player in front of him. If I said left wing you'd know he was playing on the left etc.

That's not to say he was fixed in any one position for the entire game, but it's giving you a rough idea as to his role that day. Do you think footballers and coaches would just say "We expect Rooney to play as a 'Forward' in the derby, so just figure it out how to deal with him". No, do they balls.

That's the reason names for positions exist, to make it simplified and easier to communicate quickly. Saying "Forward" is too unspecific.

Rooney is the classic False 9 - he plays some sort of attacking role but also midfield yet doesn't score enough goals and probably should be dropped but managers feel complelled to play them!

 

[Terra Passenger]

The point he is making is that the terms 'Keeper, defenders, midfielders, forwards and wingers' are all widely understood, simple and used with consistancy. A false 9 means so many different things as to make it useless. You just have to look at the range of players that get mentioned to see the point.

Were Yaya_Tony to argue that the term "false 9" is overused, or misused I could maybe see his point. Instead, Yaya_Tony goes on - with what I presume is intentional hyperbole - to claim that the term is utter "shite" and is used to describe any attacking midfielder/winger.

To which I reply, in Yaya_Tony's vernacular -" bollocks!"

Let's look at a definition of the term from an excellent tactical analysis site.

Spielverlagerung.de defines the term "false 9" to mean:

The false number nine is an unconventional lone striker, who drops deep into midfield at times.

And that's it.

Yaya_Tony is absolutely confiused/ignorant of this meaning. He thinks that a side lining up with a traditional striker with a #10 would label the 10 as a "false 9."

Buzz. Wrong. Next contestant please.

The term "false 9" succinctly describes a side that intentionally does not set up with a traditional striker. A side that sets up with no striker whatsoever, does not contain a "false 9." A side that sets up with a traditional striker, also does not contain a "false 9" - Yaya_Tony seems confused on these points - claiming that the #10 role is, in fact a false 9 - buzz, next contestant please - or that a side with no striker whatsoever automatically contains a false 9 - buzz, buzz, buzz.

In short, Yaya_Tony is confused (presumably) or a troll (possibly).

The term "false 9" is an extremely valuable football term which concisely describes the attacking side's layout.

I usually avoid huge confrontations - hence I replied to you rather than confused/trolling Toure - but this is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING BEYOND THE PALE!!!

And I've had a few drinks, so I'm now ready to confront the "genius" Torre_Tony - er, by the way, you know that Yaya fucking sucks, don't you Torre. Here's a cake for your troubles.

"CAKE"
If I knew you were coming I'd have baked a cake.
Baked a cake.
Bakec a cake.
If I knew you were coming I'd have baked a cake.
Oh Yaya Toure you should fucking score more!
Fucking score more!

For those who may not comfortable with the term "false 9" - Spielverlagerung.de defines it here.

For confused troll - suspect that the definition referenced above is either beyond your simpleton comprehension or exposes your trolling.

I anxiously await your confused/trolling reply.

Haha - jinx!

You're an idiot and I could care less what you say.
==============
And so having exposed the troll, here's my opinion...

A false 9 needs to be extremely creative on the ball, easily able to round any one-on-one situation, easily able to play short 1-2s - with his teammates - and deadly if given a shot on goal.

For me, Nasir fits that role to a tee. But he's left the club.

KDB... I don't think that he could feature as a "false 9." Great goal scoring - but not so good defeating established defenders 1-on-1 - and not good enough in short/quick passing to defeat defenders in good position.

So lacking a good "false 9" - and with Aguero soon to be suspended - I think that Pep will feature 'Nacho in a trational nine role.

And I think that we'll prevail over the scuem. Probably Yaya_Tony disagrees.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Were Yaya_Tony to argue that the term "false 9" is overused, or misused I could maybe see his point. Instead, Yaya_Tony goes on - with what I presume is intentional hyperbole - to claim that the term is utter "shite" and is used to describe any attacking midfielder/winger.

To which I reply, in Yaya_Tony's vernacular -" bollocks!"

Let's look at a definition of the term from an excellent tactical analysis site.

Spielverlagerung.de defines the term "false 9" to mean:

The false number nine is an unconventional lone striker, who drops deep into midfield at times.

And that's it.

Yaya_Tony is absolutely confiused/ignorant of this meaning. He thinks that a side lining up with a traditional striker with a #10 would label the 10 as a "false 9."

Buzz. Wrong. Next contestant please.

The term "false 9" succinctly describes a side that intentionally does not set up with a traditional striker. A side that sets up with no striker whatsoever, does not contain a "false 9." A side that sets up with a traditional striker, also does not contain a "false 9" - Yaya_Tony seems confused on these points - claiming that the #10 role is, in fact a false 9 - buzz, next contestant please - or that a side with no striker whatsoever automatically contains a false 9 - buzz, buzz, buzz.

In short, Yaya_Tony is confused (presumably) or a troll (possibly).

The term "false 9" is an extremely valuable football term which concisely describes the attacking side's layout.

I usually avoid huge confrontations - hence I replied to you rather than confused/trolling Toure - but this is ABSOLUTELY FUCKING BEYOND THE PALE!!!

And I've had a few drinks, so I'm now ready to confront the "genius" Torre_Tony - er, by the way, you know that Yaya fucking sucks, don't you Torre. Here's a cake for your troubles.

"CAKE"
If I knew you were coming I'd have baked a cake.
Baked a cake.
Bakec a cake.
If I knew you were coming I'd have baked a cake.
Oh Yaya Toure you should fucking score more!
Fucking score more!

For those who may not comfortable with the term "false 9" - Spielverlagerung.de defines it here.

For confused troll - suspect that the definition referenced above is either beyond your simpleton comprehension or exposes your trolling.

I anxiously await your confused/trolling reply.

Haha - jinx!

You're an idiot and I could care less what you say.

Does it really matter that much?

False 9, no attackers etc etc. It's all the same and surely only if yoou manage the fkin side you need to know this ?

Anyway, I want to know why the OP asked this? Why does this matter at City ?

 

[Terra Passenger]

Does it really matter that much?

False 9, no attackers etc etc. It's all the same and surely only if yoou manage the fkin side you need to know this ?

Anyway, I want to know why the OP asked this? Why does this matter at City ?

Yup, it indeed doesnt' matter that much. But the confused/troller pissed me off. So I've replied forcefully.

Neverhteless, if Nasri were in our side, I think that whether or not we'd play a false 9 versus the Scum is actually pretty intersting.
Now that Nasri has left, I can't see this happening - that said, Pep is a genious and is unpredictable. Pep may find someone in our side who will be excellent in the "false 9" role in spite of my, admittedly, limited analysis.

 

[Tugay One Cup]

Anyway, I want to know why the OP asked this? Why does this matter at City ?

What a bizarre question. The OP has asked who fellow blues think is capable of successfully playing the false nine role in our current squad. Instead, it's turned into a circular debate about terminology.

For those who are seemingly allergic to the term or fail to grasp the meaning of it, there's a plethora of other threads on this site.

 

[Yaya_Tony]

And I think that we'll prevail over the scuem. Probably Yaya_Tony disagrees.

The rest of your post was, in my own vernacular, utter shite, but why the fuck would i disagree with this bit?? We will fight for evermore. Should do 'em again this year, maybe not sick swan levels but we should batter them. Nothing special about their bollocks brand of footy, any other club and a guaranteed easy 3 points to a team like ours. But it's the scum so, not that I ever bet on City (don't want to jinx us), "all bets are off" as it were.

Contain big nose and rug head, keep possession and take our chances when they come.