Apparently there's a fourth part which is yet to be published but will be coming soon.
Absolutely fascinating interview with the boss here. https://www.canofootball.com/articl...diola-part-1-enemies-bayern-and-burnley-away/
Absolutely fascinating interview with the boss here. https://www.canofootball.com/articl...diola-part-1-enemies-bayern-and-burnley-away/
Q. If you could give one message to the Pep Guardiola who was just starting at Barcelona B in 2007, what would you say?
A. Great question. I think at the start I had a clear idea, saying “This is what I want to do”. After a few months I realized that the principles must always be in place, but you’ve got to continuously adjust. Different players interpret things in different ways; we must adjust constantly.
Q. Can a football coach take inspiration from other sports?
A. Yes. I love all sports. It’s true that handball has various tactical concepts, for example, defensive set-ups, triangles, how to play around the pivot. Then there’s golf which completely depends on the mental aspects, how they play under such pressure. I find sport at the elite level fascinating; how they recover from losses, bad moments or losing in the last minutes. There’s some players that stand up and say “I’m here”, others disappear. I love to study people’s reactions.
Q. Last season’s Premier League went right to the wire. You won the league against a team that only lost one game out of 38. Was it more satisfying to win in that way?
A. The rival always gives the value to the competition. Liverpool were at an incredible level, the hardest I’ve faced in my life. The leagues in Spain and Germany were tough, but this was especially tough. Klopp’s team had everything; the positional attacks hurt us, but we managed to beat them. Getting 100 points the season before was fantastic, but remember we came back from seven points behind with 14 consecutive wins to claim the ‘back-to-back’ title in a country like England where Liverpool haven’t won the league in 30 years. Just think about that. Spain has Madrid and Barca, England has Manchester United and Liverpool, when you realise the latter haven’t won the title in 30 years it makes you think “wow”.
Q. In England you have many rivals, does this give you the daily stimulation?
A. I need enemies. I love when people hate me and hope I fail. It gives me fire and makes me think “OK, watch this.” It’s a necessity for all athletes, not only coaches. This kept us going and helps us perform every three days. I live for the league titles – though, I’d give a lot to win the Champions League – but remember it’s only seven games. We missed a penalty in the eleventh minute at Spurs and then Aymeric Laporte, the best centre-back in Europe, made his only two mistakes of the year and we were out. But the league is every three days; winter never finishes in England, seriously, it lasts from October until March and conditions are tough. We have to be there everyday.
I love the English, especially the fans; the Premier League is the real competition for them. It’s a great, great league. Big stadiums, big games, and any team can lose against any other. We know that whichever ground we go to, they’re going to compete. It’s so demanding. There’s many conditions that level it out that we can’t control; the weather is one that has a huge influence.
There’s small pitches where it feels like there can be seven goals in 10 minutes. Of course there aren’t really seven goals, but the atmosphere and environment makes it feel that way. I’ve found things that I would never see at Barcelona. For example, when we play Burnley, they work off second balls and set-pieces; hitting the channels and looking for throw-ins. On their pitch, it’s impossible to not concede corners and throw-ins; even though we spent the whole week preparing by saying “don’t make fouls, make the extra-pass to avoid the defensive transition, let’s not concede cheap set-pieces.” With the likes of Kun Agüero, David Silva, Bernardo Silva and İlkay Gündoğan on the pitch, we can’t give them free crosses into our box.
I remember that after just a few weeks in England, I realised that I had arrived to a different planet. I had to change my ways of thinking and train more on defending the second balls. At Barcelona, my assistants supplied information on the counter-attacking traits of Mourinho’s Madrid and we said “we need to be so cautious of losing the ball against these guys”, then in Germany I had to change again as we didn’t have the options of ‘security-passes’ that we had in Barcelona – as it was extremely unlikely that Barca’s midfielders would lose the ball – but in Germany my players didn’t have these specific qualities, they had others; therefore I knew we couldn’t leave 40 metres of space behind us. At Barcelona we knew everyone could play and join in attacks with Leo (Messi) and Andres (Iniesta) left centrally to attract opponents and link play. I had to learn about sacrificing players in attack in order to leave players back with just defending roles when starting in both Germany and England. I couldn’t just turn up and say “Ok, I’m going to play in my own way, get rid of this 15 and give me 15 new players please.”
I arrived and had the likes of Thomas Müller, Arjen Robben, Franck Ribery and others who didn’t have this ability to keep the ball. I had great dribblers and other types of players, but none with the qualities to play how I did in Barcelona. In the third year I knew the players better and we also had Xabi Alonso and Philipp Lahm playing centrally; we played with more distinct. When I arrived to Manchester, the people said “Oh, you have to win in your first year!”…no, I need time! I need to know the players, I need to know the league, I need to know what works and doesn’t work against certain teams and then adjust. Adjust to the long balls, adjust to the teams playing off second balls and adjust to referees not awarding the fouls; it’s not imitable. I still need time to adapt to the referees – when a player pushes through the back of an opponent to then take the ball, it’s not a foul – the English referees won’t change – so I need to adjust.
We have to look at the opponents. If they’re tall then we need to play as far away from our goal as possible. If we’re deep, we have real difficulties against these teams. We have players who’re short in height but play with extreme technical quality. So when I came, I immediately signed Claudio Bravo so that we could play out from the back and create 2v1s all over the pitch. This is what I learned as a kid at Barcelona’s academy, and I carried the belief as a player and now as a manager, coaching it in different countries.
Q. The World Cup in Russia showed many physical teams playing in a low block against more technically gifted opponents who circulated the ball expecting the opposition to tire but the teams were so well organised and in good physical condition to survive. This past season in Spain saw winning teams also have a lot less possession. Has there been a change in football or is it just a coincidence?
A. Firstly, it’s extremely difficult to work on a process of attack in the three or four weeks that a national team have at a tournament as that stuff takes a lot of time. It’s far simpler to play in a 4-4-2, defending and counter-attacking as it takes less time to perfect. To play with positional football and attack spall spaces is so complicated; each player has so many individual roles.
Q. But Spain won consecutive trophies playing with the ball and then Germany won in 2014. Then Portugal and France won with a contrasting philosophy. Look at Real Betis last season, they had more possession than anyone else in La Liga but didn’t even qualify for Europe.
A. Yes, but it depends where you have the ball. Are you creating chances? You need to be decisive and ruthless in the final third. At City we had the record for the most passes in the Champions League last season, but 80% of them were between the two centre-backs; these numbers are nothing, they count for nothing, there’s no point in them. This isn’t possession!
If you do nothing with the ball then what’s the point?! Everyone in the world knows when you’re playing with meaning or when you’re just playing because you like having the ball. If your possession doesn’t have motion, it’s like living without a life; it’s more dangerous to play like that. I may as well just sit down with my legs crossed on the bench, waiting for the opposition to counter attack. As both a person and coach I love to have the initiative, that means playing higher up the pitch, in-and-around the final third and creating chances on goal.
Q. Is this why you prefer quicker passing, playing in a high press and having players with personality who can beat players, make things happen and score? Do they need to think like individuals in the final third?
A. Of course, you can’t control everything from the bench. Like if I shout for them to play wide but they don’t see the full-back overlapping or we don’t have an overload there, they may see a better option centrally. It’s impossible to control everything. You need every kind of player in football, it’s not black and white. We need physically strong players, players who move well without the ball, players who can defend with 40 metres behind them, people who know when and where to pass to the free player.
What is good football from my point of view? It’s in studying the movements of the opponents and making the right decision. If I have a centre-back with the ball, my winger moves forward to attract the opponent, then I play to my full-back who now has more space. If I’m a centre-back and the opponent’s centre forward is closing me down, my fellow centre-back has more time and space so I give it to him. If I’m a centre-back and my attacking midfielder drops in deep to unbalance the opposition midfield then I give it to my other midfielder who is now in the space. The process of positional football is to move the opponents, then they make your decisions for you and from there we play.
Q. Do you think we are over-professionalising the game for young players? Should we allow for more time for kids to play in the streets with freedom, with more time to dribble and play against bigger kids?
A. No, I think if a kid has the talent to dribble then he’ll have it all his life; he just needs to know when and how to do it. If we create places where they need to feel more comfortable to dribble then it’s not real. Intelligent players know how to see what is happening around them and how the game is developing, always moving in accordance to where their opponents, teammates and spaces are.
Q. If you prefer it when it’s chaotic, how do you get your principles and priorities in training? Where do you start?
A. It’s a cycle. I believe that when you press high with great effect then you’ll always spend less time defending in deep areas. And when you play out with quality then the rest of play comes fluidly, in a natural way. If we make an 8 v 6 to play out from the back, even just asking our number 9 to drop a little then everything comes fluidly from there. It’s a consequence of the two zones of the pitch; high and deep. Of course we have to defend, but it’s a lot less minutes defending in a game if we stick to our principles with the ball.
I first learned about the importance of a good build-up in the third division with Barça B. I’ve talked about it many times, having to build-up in very, very small pitches with artificial grass, where we had to play every Sunday. Monday would come along and you’d say, “It’s impossible to play out from the back here, impossible.” Then Tuesday came and you’d say “Its impossible, but a little less impossible.” By Wednesday and Thursday you were convinced, and we had to insist on the idea. We played like that throughout the season with the team, using the goalkeeper a lot, making the opponent turn and drop back; we had great success. And if we could do it there – on those pitches – then it could be done in every league, on every pitch; but you have to insist and convince the players, of course. The spaces are there, the spaces exist. A football pitch is very, very big. It’s enormous. We close the spaces down with our bad movement, but they are there. It’s merely a question of training these scenarios over and over again, analysing them, re-watching them and telling the players: “When you’re here, make this decision, the space is here!”. They have to see it for themselves and then believe it. It can be done.
Q. How much work will the players do with the video analysis team? Have relationships between players and coaches changed since you played?
A. The analysis is fundamental. When they see themselves play, with their own movements in front of their own face, then they learn far quicker. Sometimes I’ll be talking to a player about a moment in a session or game from two weeks before and they won’t remember, I’ll say: “Don’t worry”, let’s go and find the video footage together.” It’s incredible because the next time they’ll think “Fucking hell, this is the moment he showed me, when the ball comes from there then I need to turn to play this way where my two teammates are.”
Q. Then there’s the Marcelo Bielsa way. An Argentina player told me he’d go into their hotel rooms and bombard them with video clips.
A. But you need a strong relationship with players to do this stuff. Once they trust you, you have the keys. You can give them so much more information; “Take it on your back foot to have more chance of playing out, open up your body and play a little deeper, now look at the space for your winger.” The simplest things such as creating a 2 v 1 in the defensive phase can give the rest of your play so much more fluidity.
The players think I’m joking around when I tell them just how much of an impact the little things will have on their game. Most of the messages are to separate themselves from teammates and opponents. It’s not “dribble past five players and put it in the stanchion.” My messages bore them as I’m forever saying “open up your body, play on your back foot, play a pass into your teammate’s strong foot.” They’re always simple things that make our play more slick and fluid.
One thing I never let them do is watch our games back in full as we don’t have time to go through everything. When we have a game every three days for 10 months we don’t even have time to train. So we’ll spend 10 or 15 minutes looking at three different clips and correcting errors. Therefore, during preseason, it’s important that we do very little physical work and lots and lots of tactical work.
Q. A lot of managers use video analysis during the half-time break, are you one of those managers?
A. Not all the time. When there’s something that keeps happening, be it good or bad, then we’ll have a look. Our performance analyst Carles Planchart often gives the players three clips each to watch at home. The technology has made it all easier for us coaches; before we just had the tactics board, but now we can show the spaces and distances in real time.
Q. It seems like you can always get players to anticipate what’s going to happen next. Is this a gift?
A. No, it’s not a gift at all. I played as a central midfielder and knew my job was always easier when my central defenders or full-backs came forward and carried the ball to attract opponents away from me. Then sometimes our central defenders didn’t carry the ball out and I’d never touch the ball. This mentality helped us in the defensive zone as well as the others. To work on attacking principles is the most fascinating thing in the world to me.
Q. But you never know what the opponents are going to do.
A. True, but there are two or three zones on the pitch that are undefendable.
Q. Where are they?
A. (Laughing) I can’t tell you that, but if we play with a winger high and wide on each side of the pitch then there are definitely a few zones which can’t be defended, no matter the system. We always want to attack inwards, it’s the same as basketball; move the ball to the middle so the opposition close down central spaces, then move it to the side at the last possible moment to give somebody an open opportunity to shoot. Football is the same, you have to attack the centre-backs, attack the pivot and attack the centre forwards. So in the end, one of the three (of our centre-backs or pivot) has to attack centrally, then all the team come forwards. We did it constantly at Barcelona, all the way up the pitch, Andres and Messi would always attack the centre-backs, that’s how we continually created openings.
Q. You must plan for so many outcomes as you don’t know how the opponents will set-up. Do you plan and prepare to alter the system and approach before the game?
A. Yes. We’ll have several plans as it’s difficult to get players to understand messages during the game and there’s not enough time at half-time. The fundamentals remain the same, though. It doesn’t matter how the opponents play or if they have four or five at the back, there’s still two or three spaces that we always look to exploit and hurt the opposition. If they’re defending with all the bodies in the centre then we will look to the wingers in wider spaces.
I remember playing under Johan Cruyff and he always said, “When you win the ball, look immediately for Romario. If the centre is closed off then look for your winger. Leave him in a 1v1 or go and make it a 2v1 then play out to the other side and help over there until central spaces open up.” But when you play down one side then there’s usually very few teammates on the other side, it’s physically demanding to attack like this. Some teams go in a 5-4-1 against us to have full-backs covering our wingers, the midfielders will be sat in front of the defensive line and then the lone striker may as well be part of the midfield. It’s difficult as we have our two central defenders playing their game and then everyone else on the pitch is around the area of the other team. Even if we lose the ball they won’t commit men forward to try and counter-attack. This is the most defensive football I’ve ever seen.
Q. We’ve seen superstars such as David Villa and Thierry Henry arrive to your teams and you managed to convince them about your positional game, instructing them to stay wide and wait there so that the likes of Iniesta and Xavi could attack centrally. Have you come across many players that you failed to convince of your ideas? If so, how do you deal with this?
A. Yes, there’s been some. Big names too. I think they understood that it worked and why I asked them to do what I did, but they just didn’t want to do it. They wanted to be a bigger part of the game, involved in every moment, expressing their 1v1 skills and individual talents. They just didn’t want to be stopped. With the big players I’ll insist, insist and insist on the style, but there comes a time where you realise, “This guy ain’t gonna do it. I’ll play a different player.”
Q. There’s been players that you signed who never quite managed to adapt to your style or what you required of them. Will you do much ground work, making calls to get character references and finding out what kind of person they are?
A. Yes, there’s a lot of that. Though you never really know how they’ll settle into the group or adapt to the philosophy, but we want to know as much as we can. When we bring a player we never want to limit their talents, but we need them to generate spaces for others and not close down the spaces created by others. Some understand, nod at you as you speak, then say “No. I don’t want to.” This is why we look for a specific profile with the character to adapt, such as Titi (Henry) and David (Villa). They came, wanted to learn and adjusted their games to help the team. I was a huge fan of both, them wingers that stay wide and then attack inwards are my favourites. Start wide and attack towards the goal, don’t go doing your own thing in the corner. It’s like watching Messi and Jordi Alba now, Messi starts wide, drives in and finds Alba arriving diagonally. It’s extremely difficult to defend. Extremely difficult!
Q. VAR has been introduced to the Premier League this season. How do you think it will affect the team psychologically when negative decisions go against them?
A. It already fucked us last season in the Champions League. It can knock the wind out of your sails when you’re celebrating to be told the goal is disallowed, but it can have the opposite effect if it works in your favour. The best action in football is always the next one, always; you can’t just live in the present, you must always be preparing for the next action. VAR is a fantastic demonstration of this. I hope it brings justice to the game. If people cannot accept the decision of the VAR team then we may as well just get rid of it now.
Q. With the amount of penalties being given for handballs and fouls of minimal-contact since the introduction of VAR, do you think it will become a tactic for teams to play with more attack-minded football?
A. Evidently, yes. We saw it in the first minutes of Champions League final with the penalty awarded after a few seconds. But this isn’t just a question of VAR; the more you attack, the more chances there are of these things happening and goals being scored. (Laughing) Although, I remember qualifying for the Champions League final in 2009 with Andres’ shot being our only effort on goal all night, then three years later, we had thirty-something shots and we were out. Seriously though, it’s simply a question of possibilities. If we attack more, with the ball always further away from our goal then there is no reason more logical that we win more than we lose. I want to live in the opponent’s half. I feel more secure that way.
Q. That invites opposition to play on the counter and look for the spaces in-behind you. Don’t you ever want to play deeper in possession to avoid this?
A. No. I don’t like that football. I think when a team drops, it’s because things aren’t going well. The other team can launch the ball forward and then work off the second balls and you’ll spend the full game playing deep and worrying. I remember the game against Leicester when we knew (Kasper) Schmeichel is spectacular with his distribution and can put the ball wherever he wants, looking for Vardy in the channels behind our wing-backs. I said, “Boys, today’s game is a fucker because we don’t know where Schmeichel will play out to. We have to read his body language and move ourselves rapidly, reacting to his kicks.” In this game, we ended up playing deeper out of possession in the first half, but as soon as we changed to press and win the ball back higher, we had more chances and dictated the game.
It’s like those that say, “When he was at Barça, he never used counter-attacks.” Leo (Messi) destroyed teams on the counter! But Xavi and Iniesta weren’t counter-attacking players, I had to adapt to them! Now I have Kevin De Bruyne who is a beast in chasing the ball down and robbing it back for us. If you think I’m not going to utilize this for our team then you’re crazy. I love the counter attack! I use it, but it’s not I style to set-up in. But yes, I’ll always use it. At Barça, as soon as we won the ball we’d look to attack quickly down the middle. People say “Pep only plays this way..” It’s not true. Sometimes we play more direct, of course.
Another thing, people are so educated in ‘playing without the ball’ and ‘being aggressive without the ball’. But when we sit back and wait to be attacked, we convert into a passive mentality. Then we aren’t aggressive, and when we win the ball back we play slowly.
Q. You seem like a guy that likes changes and new challenges. You only did four years at Barcelona and you’re now entering your fourth at City, having signed a contract until 2022. What is it about the Premier League and City that makes you want to stay?
A. I have everything. I wouldn’t be able to find another place that gives me so much. I have the person most important to me during my career, Txiki Begiristain, alongside me. I’m at a club that supports me whether I win or lose; I remember when we finished third in my first year and the club asked me what they can do to help. I have a young team. I feel loved. In England they have a culture where you feel part of the family if you wear the same shirt, whether you win or lose. I’m left to do my work on the training ground and have great relationships with everyone around the place.
Q. Like the other leagues around the continent, there seems to be a gap that’s getting bigger between the power-clubs and the rest in the Premier League due to economical-side of the game. Does it worry you that we’re moving closer to a Super League becoming reality?
A. No. The Super-League will never happen. It wouldn’t be good. The English won’t let that happen as they have a huge culture of ‘football of the town’. If you watch games from the Conference, League 1 or League 2, the stadiums are packed. The English take care of these aspects and have a huge respect for the fans. They have a love for the game there that I’ve never seen anywhere else.
Q. The two 2019 European finals were contested by English teams, do you think they can maintain these levels of domination over the next few years?
A. Spain has dominated over the past 10 years, but England have shown progress with their youth teams recently winning tournaments and the senior team reaching the World Cup semi-final in Russia. I believe that a problem English teams have had in the past is they didn’t believe they were good enough, and last year’s European competitions have now given them the belief. I’m very optimistic about the future of English football. There’s a new generation of coaches who are very well prepared and extremely brave. The difference between good football and bad football is the brave coaches and those who aren’t brave. I think the new generation of people who are young and starting from the bottom in grassroots will give us good football – positive football. When you have two teams and both play and give everything to win, it’s always a good game.
Q. What does Brexit mean for Pep Guardiola the coach? What does it mean for Pep Guardiola the family man living in the UK?
A. It’s a worry, to be honest. Nobody knows how it will start or even what will change in our daily lives. Similar to the Catalan Independence movement, nobody knows how it would work or what would really happen if it went ahead. I don’t know how either will end up.
Q. When we look at the spine of the current Barcelona team; Pique, Busquets, Suarez and Messi, do you think they could play in a high press-system, defending with 40-metres behind them and with the energy required to do so?
A. Yes, I think so. I speak a lot about the game over the phone with Ernesto (Valverde) and also whenever we see each other. He knows exactly what he wants from the group. I watch as an outsider and certainly think that he has the team playing how he wants them to. Remember, this is a team that’s won eight of the last 11 Spanish league titles! Who can doubt these numbers?
It’s so easy to say, “They only reach quarter-finals or semi-finals in Europe.” But those tournaments are about small moments, missing one chance or one mistake. This team won eight of the last 11 La Ligas because they have the energy to be there every three days; to have more energy than that doesn’t exist. We can’t doubt a team like that because of knockout football. If they got past Anfield then we’d be talking about a triple-winning team.
It’s not easy to coach at Barça. I still get so pissed off because even coaches from other teams make comments about what I should be doing. What do they know? They aren’t there everyday in every training session, dealing with players who lack confidence, players going through divorces, players with problems at home. There’s a million things that can affect the performance of a player and the people on the outside know nothing about it.
Q. In the world of today where everything is about getting more followers and likes, winning the Champions League is given much more value and significance than winning a league title. What is your relationship with the Champions League? How do you value it?
A. Every single year, when it arrives, I say, “Wow. How great is it to be in the Champions League?!?!” I love the thing; from group stages to the knockouts. When we were knocked out last season, I was left saying “Mother fucker, playing Ajax in the Johan Cruyff stadium would have been the semi-final of my life!” The league is different though. When you lose in the Champions League it’s bad for two or three days, but in the league, you win on Sunday, then immediately think about the game on Wednesday. Monday and Tuesday you’re walking about excited, thinking “How great is this?!”
This is what sport is about; how you enjoy victories whilst preparing for the next one. This process when you’re winning is brilliant. The league is eternal. For example, if you’re out of a title race by February, you have nothing. It’s terrible. Luckily, it’s not happened to me too many times, but how do you motivate your players? In the end, I love my work and I know the league title is awarded to the best team. If I win that then I know I’ve deserved it.
I’m not going to spend a year waiting to see if we can win the quarter-finals, then the semi-finals and then the final. Of course, we’ll try to win them all, but the league is what helps us live better, and I want to live better. I like my job and I want to go home and enjoy life around my family and friends having won a game, thinking “how can I prepare better for the next one?” or “why did we win the last game?”. League wins help us do this.