FA's new homegrown proposals

[r.soleofsalford]

golden goose killing time

 

[CityFan94]

All this is just covering for the FA's own failing for many many years. If they had introduced proper coaches, age specific coaching and less emphasis on winning as kids, there would be no need for quotas and the like, as our own kids would be technically much better. For too long, coaches at junior levels have been all about winning and therefore stick a bruiser up top and lump it to him.

As it is, they're forcing the introduction of bang average players to be seen like they're doing something.

I don't think it's changed much mate.

Youth teams in England are full of strong or quick players. The amount of average strikers with pace in English football is unbelievable. Then by 17/18 years old, when the other players have caught up physically or they go into senior football, those players don't fulfill their potential. Technically ability is an afterthought at so many academys.

When people say things like Xavi and Iniesta would be told they're too small in an English academy, it's sadly true. What would Xavi have done in a youth team where the tactic is for the defence to launch the ball to the tall, fast striker every time?

We're one of the very few academys who place a real emphasis on technical ability.

 

[ell]

Surely binning off international football altogether would be the better option?

 

[CityFan94]

Surely binning off international football altogether would be the better option?

I like International football, there just seems to be so many pointless games.

What is the point of playing Lithuania at home?

The Scotland/England games were awesome last year and 2013 - would rather a Home Nations tournament with passionate games than playing duds in a qualifying group that England will obviously top.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Hopefully the premier league will knock this proposal down.

All this will do is cause the likes of Lennon to go for £50m and paid 200k a week, meanwhile top prospects will start earning 50k or so before they turn 18. With so much money these players (with the exception of few) will rest on their laurels and stop improving or working hard - something we even see now. lower leagues might benefit with a lot of transfers as the premier league clubs attempt to sign decent British players, but very soon the Premier league will be diluted as a result of an abundance of average homegrown players. This could negatively impact the European spots granted to England, and further TV deals may decrease in value, potentially pushing the PL in the same direction as the serie A.

Meanwhile other leagues without the disadvantages of restrictions will improve their product while their already impressive youth setup will continue producing great players for the national teams

A far better (and proven) way to improve homegrown talent would be the introduction of B teams - both Spain and Germany who seem to have the greatest talent at the moment have b teams - so that promising youngsters don't get lost in their development when steeping up from the U18s. There is a gap between that age group and the top flight football that reserve football doesn't sufficiently address. Unfortunately this has been shot down (and unless the PL clubs somehow use their financial muscle to force this I doubt it will be implemented)

Grass root coaching needs to be improved - the number of coaches with uefa licenses is shockingly less than those in Spain or Germany

Rather than forcing clubs to use average players, maybe the subs bench could be expanded and the extra spots given to U21 players - options instead of restrictions. In italy they have a 12 man bench - no reason why those 5 spots cant be given to young players. I dont think it's possible to increase the number of substitutions allowed (fifa rule or something) - but were it possible maybe allow two u21 substitutions in addition to the 3 'free' subs. only restriction I could conceivably see would apply to early stage cup matches where perhaps the club is required to play 2 or 3 youngsters.

Some excellent ideas in there that would be better than Dyke's steaming pile of protectionist crap

I agree, this is as ridiculous a proposal as anything dreamt up by the far left. Basically, you would be forced to sign players who are below par, just to hit a target set by some right-on tosser who wants to manipulate reality. I don't think that even the current restrictions should apply, clubs are businesses, not fucking social workers, if we haven't got enough English players of the correct standard, which I think is a sad state of affairs, the problem lies with schools, parents, and all the other bodies involved, not the football clubs.
We have Harry twatting Kane rammed down our throats as an example of how talent can escape without opportunity, but that is up to the club who owned him, not some official telling them that they should play him. He was liked by Tim Sherwood and got his chance, just like any other player, English or foreign.
Why not go the whole hog and ban foreigners completely?
We would then absolutely piss the world cup with a teamful of Luke Shaws' and Chris Smallings.'

 

[BrianW]

I am opposed in principle to all artificial quotas and restrictions. If players are good enough, they will get in the team on their own merits. If the only reason you are in the team is because you come from Gorton, the chances are you're not good enough.

This is an attempt to prop up the England team - I don't give a crap about the England football team, it wouldn't bother me if they never played another fixture. But the point is, the measure won't help England anyway. At best, they'll just have more bang average players to pick from. Any half decent team will still stuff them. It's the measure of 'England quality' that Rooney is still seen as the cornerstone of the team. Would Rooney even get into the Spain or Argentina teams? I doubt it, and I'm sure he'd not be an established regular.

 

[mancity dan]

This is just going to add another premium on top of the English player premium we already have to pay. Pellers got it right last week in his interview when he said he would like to buy more English players but they are far too expensive.

 

[BigOscar]

So what do our unmotivated, lazy, spoilt kids need to push them to become better players? How about we make life even easier for them by forcing teams to hire them and make them more valuable simply by being english. Great plan. If you compare how easy the kids coming through the english academies have it already, it's not hard to see why the foreign kids are more dedicated and motivated, now we want to make it even easier for them?

On the plus side, bang average english players would be worth even more money and paid even more ludicrous sums. The premier league would quickly start looking like the Russian Premier League though. Do any of the top footballing nations employ quota systems? Not to my knowledge.

 

[Manc in London]

There's something of the UKIPs (England for the English) about Dyke and his rhetoric. Maybe he hankers for the halcyon days of the 70s when the majority of players in Division 1 were English and the national team were so good, they avoided qualifying for a World Cup and European Championship.

Dyke appears to be blinded by the fact that Harry Kane, who was given a chance at Spurs, through fault rather than design (Spurs throwing money at poor strikers), has done well. Dyke probably thinks we would have lots of other Kane-types who would turn in top scorers if given a chance. I find it quite amusing that he is blinded by this instance. Kane has played well for a few months and everything has gone his way. It's as if Kane sleeps in a bed of four leaf clovers with the amount of mis-hits he has scored from, the amount of times the ball has dropped at his feet with the goal gaping and the number of penalties Spurs have been awarded. He'll be lucky to score half as many next season.

To those who understand the governance of English football....Will the Premier League have to agree to any changes being imposed on Premier League clubs?

 

[pace89]

Hopefully the premier league will knock this proposal down.

All this will do is cause the likes of Lennon to go for £50m and paid 200k a week, meanwhile top prospects will start earning 50k or so before they turn 18. With so much money these players (with the exception of few) will rest on their laurels and stop improving or working hard - something we even see now. lower leagues might benefit with a lot of transfers as the premier league clubs attempt to sign decent British players, but very soon the Premier league will be diluted as a result of an abundance of average homegrown players. This could negatively impact the European spots granted to England, and further TV deals may decrease in value, potentially pushing the PL in the same direction as the serie A.

Meanwhile other leagues without the disadvantages of restrictions will improve their product while their already impressive youth setup will continue producing great players for the national teams

A far better (and proven) way to improve homegrown talent would be the introduction of B teams - both Spain and Germany who seem to have the greatest talent at the moment have b teams - so that promising youngsters don't get lost in their development when steeping up from the U18s. There is a gap between that age group and the top flight football that reserve football doesn't sufficiently address. Unfortunately this has been shot down (and unless the PL clubs somehow use their financial muscle to force this I doubt it will be implemented)

Grass root coaching needs to be improved - the number of coaches with uefa licenses is shockingly less than those in Spain or Germany

Rather than forcing clubs to use average players, maybe the subs bench could be expanded and the extra spots given to U21 players - options instead of restrictions. In italy they have a 12 man bench - no reason why those 5 spots cant be given to young players. I dont think it's possible to increase the number of substitutions allowed (fifa rule or something) - but were it possible maybe allow two u21 substitutions in addition to the 3 'free' subs. only restriction I could conceivably see would apply to early stage cup matches where perhaps the club is required to play 2 or 3 youngsters.

Some excellent ideas in there that would be better than Dyke's steaming pile of protectionist crap

I agree, this is as ridiculous a proposal as anything dreamt up by the far left. Basically, you would be forced to sign players who are below par, just to hit a target set by some right-on tosser who wants to manipulate reality. I don't think that even the current restrictions should apply, clubs are businesses, not fucking social workers, if we haven't got enough English players of the correct standard, which I think is a sad state of affairs, the problem lies with schools, parents, and all the other bodies involved, not the football clubs.
We have Harry twatting Kane rammed down our throats as an example of how talent can escape without opportunity, but that is up to the club who owned him, not some official telling them that they should play him. He was liked by Tim Sherwood and got his chance, just like any other player, English or foreign.
Why not go the whole hog and ban foreigners completely?
We would then absolutely piss the world cup with a teamful of Luke Shaws' and Chris Smallings.'

The far left? Protectionist quotas are more UKIP light. The clubs are businesses argument is pretty weak and is the excuse for them fucking over their core support, charging £46 for West Brom at home, moving to Milton Keynes etc, etc. Football clubs are part of the fabric of society and rely on local communities to underpin their continued existence and commercial activity, as such they have a responsibility to contribute to the society which supports them.

As for these proposals they’ll probably only make things worse and encourage children from all over the world to be trafficked to England at an even younger age on the vague promise that they might one day make it rich. All the FA needs to do really is invest in coaches who teach kids to pass, move and use both feet and pay for pitches for them to play on. The ratio of coaches to players in England is piss-poor compared to the rest of Europe and the cost of coaching courses is extortionate. There’s more than enough money swilling about to achieve this but getting a few more Ryan Mason’s on the bench at mid-table premier league sides seems to be the mark of success. That said, with the amount City are investing in the academy this could well be to our (marginal) benefit.

An equally big problem seems to be instilling correct attitude and desire to do well amongst young players. Any promising kid at a big premier league club is set for life by the time they’re 21 and the majority seem to be lacking in the hunger to succeed that makes Suarez, Aguero and Tevez stand out or the professionalism and dedication of Silva, Iniesta, Modric et al.

 

[GaudinoMotors]

Dyke is just a cor blimey populist - has been everywhere he's managed to talk his way into a job - doesn't last long with his Keeganesque short term and no substantial ideas style. Just an interim shake things up and say things for publicity appointment. Scratch the surface and beneath the bluster his ideas unravel.
He's been a very lucky man - can't deny that.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Bayern is full of German players because they're good enough, not simply because they're German. Focus on developing good enough English players and they'll play, it really is that simple.

They'll point to the German's implementing a homegrown rule as evidence for why it'll work. What they won't mention is that at the time the German's implemented this system, they had 10 times the number of properly qualified coaches as England, despite having less boys in the youth system.

 

[Kazzydeyna]

I'd much rather see a root and branch reform of the coaching at all levels in this country.

Go to any amateur youth game and you will hear the coaches screaming at the 8 yr olds "away, awaayyyy... Run RUUNNN" etc for the whole game.

No mention of technical skills. Meanwhile the talented kid who isn't big for his age stands on the sidelines thinking "I wish I was Spanish".

It's a sad fact that Messi and Silva would never, ever, have made it to the top of they were British. "not big enough", "not athletic enough", "can't tackle" etc.

It stinks.

 

[Centurions]

This is utter dross unless it's England all you care about. It would specially screw us at the moment as we'd need to buy loads of English players.

Wouldnt we do quite well out of it, at least domestically?

By the time it comes in wont the best young players be at the etihad campus?

He wants to phase it in over 4 years, if that includes next season then we would struggle at the very least in the beginning.

The rags and dippers at least have both been stockpiling HG players for a couple of seasons.

 

[Centurions]

The tweaking of the three-year club trained rule from 21 to 18 is interesting and looks to me a way of slowing down the import of lads from the EU but without seeming to be discriminatory on grounds of nationality, which is illegal under EU law.

Do we currently bring in the young Spanish, Belgium and Dutch lads before they are 16? If not, then they won't qualify as home grown under the new rules. Also, I wonder if they will implement the new regulations retrospectively, so that lads who now qualify as home grown may not if the regulations are changed?

I don't think they're lowering the 21 age limit, just extending it from 15 to 21 instead of 18 to 21.

Not that I'm supporting this crap BTW, it stinks of Dyke trying to leave a "legacy" regardless of whether it's a good thing or not. If he manages to get enough of the clubs to bow to self serving compliance and pushes it through, we could be looking at the modern day equivalent of the Beeching report.

 

[I'm With Stupid]

Just look at our EDS. Of the players listed on Wikipedia, 11 are English and 13 are foreign. Of those that are on loan, 3 are English and 4 are foreign. And I won't pretend to know much about the best prospects in the reserve squad, but it seems that the most talked about young players (Lopes, Denayer, Rekik, Ambrose, Byrne, etc), most are foreign. And while the foreign loanees are on loan at the likes of PSV, Celtic and Lille, the English players are loaned out to League 1 teams. All this will achieve is a situation where the English kids are just making up the numbers in the academy system as well as the first team.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Homegown proposals or halfbaked proposals? The FA should be 'governing' football and not being an unadorned conduit whereby everything is devoted to the cause of the England team.

 

[TonyBookEnd]

I applaud the fact that Dyke is actually trying to do something about youth development but what he’s proposing is like re-building a house by re-pointing the chimney. For me, youth development and the whole footballing philosophy of this country needs to change with the times. Whether that’s possible, I don’t know. Judging by this country’s ability to run things, I very much doubt it.

Youth development in this country has stunk for years. We produce footballers that nobody wants. We produce 6ft players who can run like the wind, but can’t trap a bag of cement. Small nippy players who are quick but can only kick with 1 foot. I think it was at Glenn Hoddles academy for youth players who’d been released. He stated that a large majority of players released were small technical players but they didn’t play with their heads up which is a result of poor coaching. We need to stop putting too much emphasis on the physical attributes of the game. Scanning bones in wrists and scouts looking at heights of parents and grandparents. It’s just plain wrong. They need to be taught skill, skill and skill again. Not how many times you can catch it on your neck but when to play a pass and at the right pace.

 

[BigOscar]

At the moment, Arsenal have 7 homegrown over 21 players, we have 6 (but that includes Wright, Lampard, Boyata and Milner), Chelsea only have 3 and the rags have 7. There simply isn't enough good english players for people to have 12 each, it's madness. All that will happen is that teams will be forced to just have smaller squads, while paying even more of a ridiculous premium on english players. It will essentially just be that you can have 13 foreign players and then just have to piece a squad around that with overpriced english players and U21's. The league will only suffer for it

 

[unexpected item]

The tweaking of the three-year club trained rule from 21 to 18 is interesting and looks to me a way of slowing down the import of lads from the EU but without seeming to be discriminatory on grounds of nationality, which is illegal under EU law.

Do we currently bring in the young Spanish, Belgium and Dutch lads before they are 16? If not, then they won't qualify as home grown under the new rules. Also, I wonder if they will implement the new regulations retrospectively, so that lads who now qualify as home grown may not if the regulations are changed?

I don't think they're lowering the 21 age limit, just extending it from 15 to 21 instead of 18 to 21.

Not that I'm supporting this crap BTW, it stinks of Dyke trying to leave a "legacy" regardless of whether it's a good thing or not. If he manages to get enough of the clubs to bow to self serving compliance and pushes it through, we could be looking at the modern day equivalent of the Beeching report.

I looked up the original press release on the FA website and it looks to me like they are squeezing the EU lads out

A change in the definition of home grown player to any player, irrespective of their nationality, who has been registered with any club affiliated to The FA or Football Association of Wales (FAW) for a period of three years prior to the player’s 18th birthday (currently the definition states a home grown player has to be registered with The FA or FAW for three years before their 21st birthday).

A reduction in the maximum number of non-home grown players permitted in a club’s first team squad of 25 from 17 to 13, phased over four years from 2016. This would have the effect of ensuring that in a squad of 25, 12 players would have to be home grown.

The introduction of a requirement that at least two home grown players are also club trained players (a club trained player is defined as any player, irrespective of nationality, that has been registered for three years at their current club prior to their 18th birthday).

http://www.thefa.com/news/thefa/201...ion-homegrown-players-work-permits-march-2015