Football Lads and Lasses against Facism

As long as they’re not violent, then yes, any political position is acceptable unless it’s suggesting violence or persecution.

Who are you to say they’re not acceptable?


I am a member of a democratic society, free to comment on politics and political movements and ideologies.
If i find a political party or idea unacceptable, i'll say so, and i find political extremism highly unacceptable and abhorrent, be it from the Communists or the Nazi's.

I never said they should not exist.

As Voltaire one said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
 
I am a member of a democratic society, free to comment on politics and political movements and ideologies.
If i find a political party or idea unacceptable, i'll say so, and i find political extremism highly unacceptable and abhorrent, be it from the Communists or the Nazi's.

I never said they should not exist.

As Voltaire one said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"


What about the anarcho-syndicalists? They seem nice I heard once only drink herbal teas
 
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I'd love to know what you think is behind the rise of Tommy Robinson and right wing populism, genuinely.

I believe this.....

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...sm-immigration-financial-crisis-globalisation

So what is really going on? National populism is revolving around four deep-rooted societal shifts: the “four Ds”. First, there are high levels of political distrust, which are being exacerbated by populist leaders who paint themselves and their followers as victims of a political system that has become less representative of key groups. Second, many people have strong and entrenched fears about the perceived destruction of national cultures, ways of life and values, amid unprecedented and rapid rates of immigration and ethnic change. Accompanying this distrust and fear are anxieties related to deprivation and the loss of jobs and income, along with a strong sense that they and their ethnic and social group are being left behind relative to others in society.

Finally, many political systems in the west are having to grapple with a new era of
dealignment, in which bonds between voters and traditional parties are breaking down, and hence the path for new political challengers is much more open.

When you take a closer look at these four currents it becomes abundantly clear that there is nothing ephemeral about national populism, and we will be living in an era of heightened volatility for many years to come.
 
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I believe this.....

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...sm-immigration-financial-crisis-globalisation

So what is really going on? National populism is revolving around four deep-rooted societal shifts: the “four Ds”. First, there are high levels of political distrust, which are being exacerbated by populist leaders who paint themselves and their followers as victims of a political system that has become less representative of key groups. Second, many people have strong and entrenched fears about the perceived destruction of national cultures, ways of life and values, amid unprecedented and rapid rates of immigration and ethnic change. Accompanying this distrust and fear are anxieties related to deprivation and the loss of jobs and income, along with a strong sense that they and their ethnic and social group are being left behind relative to others in society.

Finally, many political systems in the west are having to grapple with a new era of
dealignment, in which bonds between voters and traditional parties are breaking down, and hence the path for new political challengers is much more open.

When you take a closer look at these four currents it becomes abundantly clear that there is nothing ephemeral about national populism, and we will be living in an era of heightened volatility for many years to come.

That is almost the perfect answer. That's pretty much exactly what I believe too, though I'd give greater weight to some of the four than others.

I'm lucky (or unlucky depending on your viewpoints) enough to have friends who are politically engaged across the political spectrum from the far left to the far right and this resonates deeply with what they are telling me their positions are based upon.

This is a key reason why I'm against identity politics in any format - highlighting differences and especially managing outcomes between these different groups can only lead to less social cohesion rather than more. Egalitarianism has to be at the forefront of all democratic activity or democracy itself falls down under threat. You can't have certain rules for certain groups and other rules for others for a variety of really very good reasons.
 
That is almost the perfect answer. That's pretty much exactly what I believe too, though I'd give greater weight to some of the four than others.

I'm lucky (or unlucky depending on your viewpoints) enough to have friends who are politically engaged across the political spectrum from the far left to the far right and this resonates deeply with what they are telling me their positions are based upon.

This is a key reason why I'm against identity politics in any format - highlighting differences and especially managing outcomes between these different groups can only lead to less social cohesion rather than more. Egalitarianism has to be at the forefront of all democratic activity or democracy itself falls down under threat. You can't have certain rules for certain groups and other rules for others for a variety of really very good reasons.

Identity politics almost always connects with interest politics.
 
I am a member of a democratic society, free to comment on politics and political movements and ideologies.
If i find a political party or idea unacceptable, i'll say so, and i find political extremism highly unacceptable and abhorrent, be it from the Communists or the Nazi's.

I never said they should not exist.

As Voltaire one said: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

By you saying “are they acceptable?” it, from my point of view, made me think you were for allowing them.

I’m glad you don’t actually feel that way.

Communism isn’t “abhorrent” in anyway near the same way Nazism is.
 
100 Million dead over 100 years says to me it’s abhorrent.

No point comparing murderous regimes to try and make a point one isn’t as bad as another.

They are all fucking evil.

The point of Communism isn’t to commit the murder, the essence of Nazism was to ethnically cleanse.

Communism doesn’t work, I agree, however the point of it is that everyone is equal.
 
The point of Communism isn’t to commit the murder, the essence of Nazism was to ethnically cleanse.

Communism doesn’t work, I agree, however the point of it is that everyone is equal.

"there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror." - Karl Marx

"the Austrian Germans and Magyars will be set free and wreak a bloody revenge on the Slav barbarians. The general war which will then break out will smash this Slav Sonderbund and wipe out all these petty hidebound nations, down to their very names.
The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward" Friedrich Engels



Don't give me that. Marx, Engels et al explicitly talked about mass slaughter in their works and thoroughly approved of it.
 
"there is only one way in which the murderous death agonies of the old society and the bloody birth throes of the new society can be shortened, simplified and concentrated, and that way is revolutionary terror." - Karl Marx

"the Austrian Germans and Magyars will be set free and wreak a bloody revenge on the Slav barbarians. The general war which will then break out will smash this Slav Sonderbund and wipe out all these petty hidebound nations, down to their very names.
The next world war will result in the disappearance from the face of the earth not only of reactionary classes and dynasties, but also of entire reactionary peoples. And that, too, is a step forward" Friedrich Engels



Don't give me that. Marx, Engels et al explicitly talked about mass slaughter in their works and thoroughly approved of it.

You make a good point, however the argument is on whether it’s as immoral to be a Communist or a Nazi.

You’re certainly right in that to achieve Communism in the 19th and early 20th century you would have needed to revolutionise and murder, something they were very willing to do and Communist leaders and figureheads throughout history have seen little importance of human life.

However my point is that being a Communist and following the principles does not necessarily mean murder and it certainly isn’t as abhorrent as being a supporter of Nazism.

You can be a fully fledged Communist and not support murder, you cannot if you’re the Nazis biggest fans.
 

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