Football Leaks/Der Spiegel articles

[shemnel]

I wonder why we (society) dont scrutinise shady NHS sell offs and obscure government finance deals and offshore dealings with as much fervour as football?

 

[nijinsky69]

So, if I understand correctly, we’re guilty of having the smartest guys in the room. Since when was that an offence?

 

[Gabriel]

Ultimately, I will be shocked if anything comes of this. Hacking is illegal so for these emails to be actually looked at by UEFA, the source of the leaks would have to be identified. I suspect that even Der Spiegel don't even know the identity of the leaker/hacker. Even the Football Leaks book only refers to him as John from Portugal.

So without identifying the origin, how can UEFA check the validity of them? Is it outside the realms of possibility that these emails could have been edited or altered? I know that's a reach and probably sounds like a bit of a straw-man argument, but without identifying the originator of the leaks, you can't really vouch for the validity of them. You certainly can't just take them at face value and unquestionably accept everything in them as fact.

I must say, the reaction in the press is hysterical, but not surprising given the loudest journo's on this particularly subject are supporters of our rivals. Some of the stuff being spouted though is absolute nonsensical and appear to be acts of desperation to add their own input into a story which they have just purged from a different newspaper. Unfortunately, these little bits of 'additional info' tend to be poorly researched.

For example, I had an argument with a certain Nick Harris on Twitter who argued that we shouldn't' be claiming any sponsorship for the naming rights of the stadium (meaning the Etihad deal should purely be a shirt only deal) because we don't own the stadium. However, had he done his research, he would have known that we pay an annual fee of £3m for full ownership of the naming rights and have done so for the last 8 years. His next argument was that this fee wasn't consistent with the size of the income generated by the sponsorship. As an argument in itself, this is ridiculous. He didn't stop there because he then moved onto the 'opaque' nature of the deal with Manchester City Council and how our stadium still had not benefited the taxpayer. As if the East Manchester regeneration, funded by ADUG, isn't benefiting the local economy/environment. Basically, journo's are using it as an excuse to spew their guts up over a variety of other non related issues. But everything they seem to allude to is so poorly researched and unbalanced that they can't actually engage in debate about their viewpoint......because it's not actually their own viewpoint. They're just really angry and jealous and using re-hashed articles and stories to display their anger. They're not interested in portraying any balance, and that's where it stops being journalism, and actually starts becoming an attack.

I've seen other journo's talking how we paid UEFA a 'backhander' through Infantino. Again, what? Surely that's a settlement? I've also read about how we have committed legal fraud. Again, absolute fiddlesticks. A shareholder can legally fulfil financial obligations on behalf of the company he/she holds shares in. It may be deceitful in terms of FFP but again, the only people defending FFP are supporters of clubs who feel threatened by the emergence of us and PSG. From my point of view, I find it impossible to get angry about a club finding ways around a ridiculously unfair rule, particularly when that rule has been brought in to stop a specific set of teams. From a legal standpoint, FFP is murkier than any of our dealings. It's not really illegal, but it's not really legal either. It's such a grey area that UEFA probably don't want to take their chances in court. The process would cost a lot of money, would be lengthy and they could actually lose. I suspect that it will fail because of how it restricts competition. And from a business stand point, how can UEFA really prevent an organisation from increasing their value through the purchase of assets? Certainly by EU Law, it can't.

So all in all, all of the above is just in-line with the natural flow of anti-city journalism within the British media. It's no longer balanced. Even some of the football podcasts no longer speak about City's dominance on the pitch. We are only a top news story if there's something negative to say. Point in case, we beat Shaktar 6-0 and The Guardian pod lead with the Sterling penalty, as did every other media outlet. It was hardly game-defining, but it does give the media a chance to attack Sterling again. I didn't see this cry for honesty when Ashley Young nearly broke Aguero's leg in the derby, or when Boly scored with his hand, or when Calvert-Lewin went down holding his face when Walker shoulder barged him. It seems fine when it happens against us because it 'even's-up our dominance and gives the game 'more balance'. If only the media would apply that balance to their reporting. Wankers.

Excellent post and a special 'like' for using the word 'fiddlesticks'. :-)

 

[Andrew___K]

Ultimately, I will be shocked if anything comes of this.

Wrote about it yesterday. I reckon you're missing the point of the leaks, like many posters in this thread.
The goal of this attack is a short-term PR effect while G14 are trying to weaken Infantino (ideally, to the point of dismissal), stop the CWC project and set the ground for ESL.

It doesn't really matter for Rummenigge/Agnelli/Tebas if 'anything comes of this', they operate on a different plane, relying on public opinion, not on courts and juridical procedures. Even the last Spiegel articles that contained zero revelations ('evil Pep signed for evil Sheikh and spent dirty money on De Bruyne!!!') make perfect sense in this light.

 

[St.Pauli support]

I see many love the Marca article.
Because it says City was not invited to Super League talks - in March 2016.

But don't make the mistake to only read what you like.
Marca's article is based on Mediapart - the French part of EIC (European Investigative Collaboration).
Der Spiegel is the German part of EIC.

The Marca article is just a small part of the Spiegel article "Dirty deals", that I have linked last night.
Source is the same project: football leaks, by EIC.

Der Spiegel article is telling the same plans about Super League, but not stopping in August 2016 like Marca does, but until today.
Meanwhile City are said to be involved as a European top club. Not a surprise to me at all.

Read the article.
It also tells some points about the whistleblower and his intentions.
Also read on EIC homepage about their intentions and you will understand that Bayern has nothing to do with EIC, of course.
Like I have nothing to do with fuckin Bayern.

I would assume the database of football leaks being true. Similar to other well known global leaks. Stolen but true.
The intention is fighting immoral power and money driven big businesses, even by illegal means.
To add to the truth behind the picture sold to us by media day in day out.
If we like it or not.

 

[Sun Jihad]

Considering our owner has Florentino Perez on speed dial and has business dealings with him, I highly doubt Madrid are behind trying to leg us over.

Barca and Bayern, hardly a stretch, is it?

Anyhow, consider any fall out, Abu Dhabi and Qatar would simply finance their own version of an elite comp, with money far beyond the realms of others.

You’re either selectively, or ignorantly, missing the point that the only reason they bought the club in the first place was as a massive advertising platform in the Premier League/Champions League; they’re projecting their State and it’s affiliated airline onto the world via City.

With that in mind, the genesis of their own competition would defy the entire point of the investment in the first place; the current European elite clearly have no interest in competing with infinite wealth, so there’s not a chance they’d participate in a competition governed by the same people they’re trying to handicap. As a result, any independent competition would lack prestige and ultimately be pointless.

 

[rossie]

Just popped over to Red Cafe to see what they made of all of this (I know, I know I shouldn't). Anyway, I read this, which I thought was a pretty decent post:

"I have a couple of issues with all this, beyond the obvious. That doesn’t mean I’m supporting or ignoring what’s happened but some things need to be said:

Firstly although some of this undoubtedly looks ‘dodgy’ do we really believe the rest of football is clean? Not just today but go back through time and there’s always examples of teams having an upper hand through dubious cash sources and practices. Spiegel even let themselves down (and show their true colours) by quoting Uli Hoeness saying City can buy good players now and shouldn’t be allowed (I paraphrase). This is Hoeness, who, at his trial in 2014, admitted evading €28.5million in taxes, was found guilty of seven serious counts of tax fraud and sentenced to prison for three and a half years. And it’s Bayern who’ve won the league the last 7 seasons.

Then La Liga complain whilst 2 teams share most the cash and have won 13 of the last 14 seasons between them. All during which Real were being investigated (and found guilty) of dodging tax and taking interest free cash off the government. That’s the Real that have just won 3 Chamions Leagues on the back of that money.

Secondly it’s not just the sour grapes and clearly corrupt examples above but do we really want to be like those leagues where only the ones with the mighty traditions (us and maybe Arsenal with the odd whiff of Liverpool) ever get to compete or win? Where the title is done and dusted before it starts? No team has retained the title for 10 years and I love that. It makes the Premier League the most popular in the world (which in turn makes US richer).

Finally let’s face it, they’ve not spent much more than us in the last few years so if it were just about money we’d be smashing the teams that haven’t the cash, in the way they do.

So my bigger point is that us all obsessing on this makes us seem small time. We want them thrown out the league, really?? Titles taken away?
Is this where we’ve fallen to?

Let’s hurt them by beating them on Sunday, making our own money work as it should instead of crying about theirs."

, this is a wonderful post from a rag..i never thought there was a rag as reasonable and open minded as this.. take my hat off to him..(just to go back to normal,i saw on a fb thread yesterday a rag stating sterling should lose his england place for what he did regarding that penalty )

 

[ono]

Wrote about it yesterday. I reckon you're missing the point of the leaks, like many posters in this thread.
The goal of this attack is a short-term PR effect while G14 are trying to weaken Infantino (ideally, to the point of dismissal), stop the CWC project and set the ground for ESL.

It doesn't really matter for Rummenigge/Agnelli/Tebas if 'anything comes of this', they operate on a different plane, relying on public opinion, not on courts and juridical procedures. Even the last Spiegel articles that contained zero revelations ('evil Pep signed for evil Sheikh and spent dirty money on De Bruyne!!!') make perfect sense in this light.

Yeah I read that and pretty much agreed with it. I just mean in terms of immediate UEFA punishment. As the week has gone on, the revelations have become much less revealing, but the language used to describe City has gotten steadily worse.

 

[cookster]

On the Mail website today is an article headlined "HMRC warn Manchester City it will be 'relentless in pursuing' club if they have tried to evade paying tax". There's a shot of the inside of the Etiahd with the caption "Manchester City will be 'pursued relentlessly' if they failed to pay their share of tax". Yet no quotes by HMRC mention City at all and refer only to any club transgressing.

I'll leave it to fellow Bluemooners to decide whether there's any agenda or not.

Any mention of the Cayman Islands?

 

[Armchair Supporter]

Just popped over to Red Cafe to see what they made of all of this (I know, I know I shouldn't). Anyway, I read this, which I thought was a pretty decent post:

"I have a couple of issues with all this, beyond the obvious. That doesn’t mean I’m supporting or ignoring what’s happened but some things need to be said:

Firstly although some of this undoubtedly looks ‘dodgy’ do we really believe the rest of football is clean? Not just today but go back through time and there’s always examples of teams having an upper hand through dubious cash sources and practices. Spiegel even let themselves down (and show their true colours) by quoting Uli Hoeness saying City can buy good players now and shouldn’t be allowed (I paraphrase). This is Hoeness, who, at his trial in 2014, admitted evading €28.5million in taxes, was found guilty of seven serious counts of tax fraud and sentenced to prison for three and a half years. And it’s Bayern who’ve won the league the last 7 seasons.

Then La Liga complain whilst 2 teams share most the cash and have won 13 of the last 14 seasons between them. All during which Real were being investigated (and found guilty) of dodging tax and taking interest free cash off the government. That’s the Real that have just won 3 Chamions Leagues on the back of that money.

Secondly it’s not just the sour grapes and clearly corrupt examples above but do we really want to be like those leagues where only the ones with the mighty traditions (us and maybe Arsenal with the odd whiff of Liverpool) ever get to compete or win? Where the title is done and dusted before it starts? No team has retained the title for 10 years and I love that. It makes the Premier League the most popular in the world (which in turn makes US richer).

Finally let’s face it, they’ve not spent much more than us in the last few years so if it were just about money we’d be smashing the teams that haven’t the cash, in the way they do.

So my bigger point is that us all obsessing on this makes us seem small time. We want them thrown out the league, really?? Titles taken away?
Is this where we’ve fallen to?

Let’s hurt them by beating them on Sunday, making our own money work as it should instead of crying about theirs."

That is such a good post