I thought the Pisscan was a died in the wool socialist, at least that’s what he claimed, the poor boy from Govan.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Former Players Lost Millions
- Thread starter DTKOAG
- Start date
Danny Murphy is played by Vinny Jones, with Eric Cantona appearing as Howard Wilkinson.Fuck me, the Telegraph is now likening this to the 'Post Office Scandal'.
When exactly did a former footballer go to jail for an offence he did not commit ? When did one commit suicide because of the shame ?
When did a footballer get ordered to pay thousands of pounds they never stole to a corrupt organisation?
Apparently the bbc are doing a documentary about it all called Footballs Financial Shame and those linked to it are hoping it will have the same impact ITV's Mr Bates v The Post Office.
Dear oh dear.
Hmmmm I'm off to Google that brbDanny Murphy is played by Vinny Jones, with Eric Cantona appearing as Howard Wilkinson.
I still can't a cast list so don't know if you are serious or I'm missing something :-)
Georgian Maestro
Well-Known Member
If they had just invested that kind of money in an S&P 500 fund then they would be sat on 10s of millions now. But no they wanted the thrill of high risk investments so tough. A fool and his money are easily parted.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I think some of the comments are a bit unfair and fail to appreciate human nature somewhat.
If someone has worked for their money and trusted their financial advisor to invest it on their behalf, and not only did that money disappear but they are then faced with a eye watering tax bill which means financial ruin then anyone is entitled to feel devastated by that.
It wasn’t a tax dodge, it was a government backed investment scheme and so those players were completely entitled to think it was legit.
As someone who has great trust placed in him by others in the course of my job I understand what a sacred responsibility that is. And I think people who consciously break such a bond of trust are cunts.
I actually knew quite a few people in that documentary twenty or so years ago, in and around Nottingham, including the two blokes from Kingsbridge who I was on nodding terms with and engaged in some small talk from time to time (McMenamin went out with my mate’s ex) and to be frank I didn’t get hugely bad vibes from either of them, so if I didn’t pick that up then I’m not going to criticise a footballer for missing it too.
By a weird twist of fate I got talking to a lawyer about this a couple of years ago who was acting for some of the players, and so I’m now reasonably well informed about what went on - which was reprehensible on Kingsbridge’s part, if not criminal, at least based on that conversation.
So I do have some sympathy for those players. Even Brian Deane who I also knew back then and never liked. He was as miserable back then as he was on that documentary.
If someone has worked for their money and trusted their financial advisor to invest it on their behalf, and not only did that money disappear but they are then faced with a eye watering tax bill which means financial ruin then anyone is entitled to feel devastated by that.
It wasn’t a tax dodge, it was a government backed investment scheme and so those players were completely entitled to think it was legit.
As someone who has great trust placed in him by others in the course of my job I understand what a sacred responsibility that is. And I think people who consciously break such a bond of trust are cunts.
I actually knew quite a few people in that documentary twenty or so years ago, in and around Nottingham, including the two blokes from Kingsbridge who I was on nodding terms with and engaged in some small talk from time to time (McMenamin went out with my mate’s ex) and to be frank I didn’t get hugely bad vibes from either of them, so if I didn’t pick that up then I’m not going to criticise a footballer for missing it too.
By a weird twist of fate I got talking to a lawyer about this a couple of years ago who was acting for some of the players, and so I’m now reasonably well informed about what went on - which was reprehensible on Kingsbridge’s part, if not criminal, at least based on that conversation.
So I do have some sympathy for those players. Even Brian Deane who I also knew back then and never liked. He was as miserable back then as he was on that documentary.
The answer to your first Q is Ched EvansFuck me, the Telegraph is now likening this to the 'Post Office Scandal'.
When exactly did a former footballer go to jail for an offence he did not commit ? When did one commit suicide because of the shame ?
When did a footballer get ordered to pay thousands of pounds they never stole to a corrupt organisation?
Apparently the bbc are doing a documentary about it all called Footballs Financial Shame and those linked to it are hoping it will have the same impact ITV's Mr Bates v The Post Office.
Dear oh dear.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Agree that it’s an outrageous comparison.Fuck me, the Telegraph is now likening this to the 'Post Office Scandal'.
Johnny Mars Bar
Well-Known Member
Footballers in being rich, thick idiots shocker.
Johnny Mars Bar
Well-Known Member
This isn't the post-match thread mateFootball millionaires. Fuck 'em. I really couldn't give a shit about them
Resurrection Joe...
Well-Known Member
balanced reply. Thanks for that. I haven't seen the documentary as I jumped straight on the entitled fkers greedy bastards side of the debate.I think some of the comments are a bit unfair and fail to appreciate human nature somewhat.
If someone has worked for their money and trusted their financial advisor to invest it on their behalf, and not only did that money disappear but they are then faced with a eye watering tax bill which means financial ruin then anyone is entitled to feel devastated by that.
It wasn’t a tax dodge, it was a government backed investment scheme and so those players were completely entitled to think it was legit.
As someone who has great trust placed in him by others in the course of my job I understand what a sacred responsibility that is. And I think people who consciously break such a bond of trust are cunts.
I actually knew quite a few people in that documentary twenty or so years ago, in and around Nottingham, including the two blokes from Kingsbridge who I was on nodding terms with and engaged in some small talk from time to time (McMenamin went out with my mate’s ex) and to be frank I didn’t get hugely bad vibes from either of them, so if I didn’t pick that up then I’m not going to criticise a footballer for missing it too.
By a weird twist of fate I got talking to a lawyer about this a couple of years ago who was acting for some of the players, and so I’m now reasonably well informed about what went on - which was reprehensible on Kingsbridge’s part, if not criminal, at least based on that conversation.
So I do have some sympathy for those players. Even Brian Deane who I also knew back then and never liked. He was as miserable back then as he was on that documentary.
One Question...what do they actually expect to get from this?...a tax bill reduction?....obviously taking advice ( good or bad ) from accountants and financial advisers can go the other way on occasion...and caveats protecting the advisers were surely in place..
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
It wasn’t covered in the documentary but whilst I think they’d like HMRC to write off the liability (who wouldn’t) I don’t think that’s an option and nor is HMRC the source of their anger. Nor do I personally think that they should be exempt from their tax liability in a way that is exceptional. It isn’t HMRC’s fault that the investments went bad.balanced reply. Thanks for that. I haven't seen the documentary as I jumped straight on the entitled fkers greedy bastards side of the debate.
One Question...what do they actually expect to get from this?...a tax bill reduction?....obviously taking advice ( good or bad ) from accountants and financial advisers can go the other way on occasion...and caveats protecting the advisers were surely in place..
Based on the conversation I had with that solicitor a couple of years ago they are seeking to retrieve the money personally from David McKee and Kevin McMenamin (as Kinsbridge is long gone) for breach of fiduciary duty. Not sure what assets either have. They were supposed to invest the money (and this was covered in the documentary) in low risk, long term investments (commensurate with the fact these were effectively pensions) but instead ploughed the money into a number of property schemes that went bad, most notably in Florida.
To call that reckless, given the tax liability at the other end, is a huge understatement. It’s beyond irresponsible.
One thing that was mentioned in the programme was one of the player’s agents who made the intro to him to Kingsbridge, and I know exactly who that was. And we was dodgy as fuck and ended up going bankrupt himself about ten years ago after some property deals of his own went wrong. Horrible **** he was. Would be amazed if he wasn’t implicated in some way.
Resurrection Joe...
Well-Known Member
ahh I get that...surely this is more a private matter for them all, and their solicitors. Not sure why or how a public campaign, based on them being ex footballers would help?..it certainly isn't gaining much traction on the sympathy front.It wasn’t covered in the documentary but whilst I think they’d like HMRC to write off the liability (who wouldn’t) I don’t think that’s an option and nor is HMRC the source of their anger. Nor do I personally think that they should be exempt from their tax liability in a way that is exceptional. It isn’t HMRC’s fault that the investments went bad.
Based on the conversation I had with that solicitor a couple of years ago they are seeking to retrieve the money personally from David McKee and Kevin McMenamin (as Kinsbridge is long gone) for breach of fiduciary duty. Not sure what assets either have. They were supposed to invest the money (and this was covered in the documentary) in low risk, long term investments (commensurate with the fact these were effectively pensions) but instead ploughed the money into a number of property schemes that went bad, most notably in Florida.
To call that reckless, given the tax liability at the other end, is a huge understatement. It’s beyond irresponsible.
One thing that was mentioned in the programme was one of the player’s agents who made the intro to him to Kingsbridge, and I know exactly who that was. And we was dodgy as fuck and ended up going bankrupt himself about ten years ago after some property deals of his own went wrong. Horrible **** he was. Would be amazed if he wasn’t implicated in some way.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
Agree but don’t know the dynamics behind the decision to produce the programme Agree that, unlike the Post Office scandal, publicity isn’t going to achieve much.ahh I get that...surely this is more a private matter for them all, and their solicitors. Not sure why or how a public campaign, based on them being ex footballers would help?..it certainly isn't gaining much traction on the sympathy front.
The Post Office was about systemic failings in a national institution whereas this was two wide boys making shit investments on behalf of others. The two scenarios aren’t on the same page.
Lavinda Past
Well-Known Member
This isn't the post-match thread mate
Hahaha!
Ever noticed that it's usually thick British players who get ripped off? Gullible kids with unscrupulous agents becone gullible adults.
Back in the good old days, players retired and took over a pub or became driving instructors.
Lavinda Past
Well-Known Member
Agree but don’t know the dynamics behind the decision to produce the programme Agree that, unlike the Post Office scandal, publicity isn’t going to achieve much.
The Post Office was about systemic failings in a national institution whereas this was two wide boys making shit investments on behalf of others. The two scenarios aren’t on the same page.
I honestly can't imagine the public giving a single toss about modern day footballers losing money.
Sub-posties getting wrongly banged up is a million miles away from thickos like Danny Murphy trying to save a few quid via tax avoidance etc.
tregyblue61
Well-Known Member
"Victims of Financial Abuse?"
They took the risk, accept the consequences.
Where was all the sympathy and action after the 2008 crash? I lost 40% of my pension because of that. Many others more. I couldn't move it because of the rules that were in place. 2 years I had to wait. No redress and action from MP's then.
You got greedy and wanted more. Accept it guys, you gambled and lost.
They took the risk, accept the consequences.
Where was all the sympathy and action after the 2008 crash? I lost 40% of my pension because of that. Many others more. I couldn't move it because of the rules that were in place. 2 years I had to wait. No redress and action from MP's then.
You got greedy and wanted more. Accept it guys, you gambled and lost.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
I broadly agree, but I don’t think there’s any reason you can’t have sympathy for someone with money who trusts a regulated financial advisor and gets ripped off.I honestly can't imagine the public giving a single toss about modern day footballers losing money.
Sub-posties getting wrongly banged up is a million miles away from thickos like Danny Murphy trying to save a few quid via tax avoidance etc.
By that token, a rich widow who gets conned out of her life savings by a gang that have targeted her doesn’t deserve any sympathy. Nor the Holocaust charities that invested in Madoff’s Ponzi scheme.
I get that people are responsible for their own decisions, and all of these footballers have to bear some of the responsibility, but we all place our trusts in professionals in a way that leaves us exposed. Doctors, lawyers, accountants. There have been plenty of rogue doctors over the years, who people have completely trusted, and nothing is more sacred than health.
That is the distinction here I feel.
To say someone shouldn’t have transferred money into a solicitor’s client account after he ran away with it would be egregiously unfair, and whilst this wasn’t exactly in the same page, the principle is the same. They trusted these people to make safe investments for them and that trust was massively breached.
There are people far, far worse off than these footballers btw, but to have no sympathy at all when we are talking about unsophisticated people who trusted regulated professionals to look after their money responsibly is a bit harsh imo.
Lavinda Past
Well-Known Member
I broadly agree, but I don’t think there’s any reason you can’t have sympathy for someone with money who trusts a regulated financial advisor and gets ripped off.
By that token, a rich widow who gets conned out of her life savings by a gang that have targeted her doesn’t deserve any sympathy. Nor the Holocaust charities that invested in Madoff’s Ponzi scheme.
I get that people are responsible for their own decisions, and all of these footballers have to bear some of the responsibility, but we all place our trusts in professionals in a way that leaves us exposed. Doctors, lawyers, accountants. There have been plenty of rogue doctors over the years, who people have completely trusted, and nothing is more sacred than health.
That is the distinction here I feel.
To say someone shouldn’t have transferred money into a solicitor’s client account after he ran away with it would be egregiously unfair, and whilst this wasn’t exactly in the same page, the principle is the same. They trusted these people to make safe investments for them and that trust was massively breached.
There are people far, far worse off than these footballers btw, but to have no sympathy at all when we are talking about unsophisticated people who trusted regulated professionals to look after their money responsibly is a bit harsh imo.
Very fair comment G. I must admit that I was probably far too harsh in my comment. We live in very sad times.
gordondaviesmoustache
Well-Known Member
As someone who has lost ‘everything’ in the space a couple of years: business went, bankruptcy, car and home repossessed, marriage fell apart, I know how losing what you’ve had can feel, although I accept that much of what happened was down to the decisions I made.Very fair comment G. I must admit that I was probably far too harsh in my comment. We live in very sad times.
But I also know that things like health and family are far more important and having reduced financial circumstances isn’t the end of the world. And all of the footballers on that documentary seemed in good physical health.
So my sympathy is somewhat limited, but I understand how it must feel to trust someone in that way and for it to be broken in such an impactful way, especially when you have a family to support.
It would be interesting to see the films they invested in, any good ones as none were mentioned?
The creative industry tax incentives weren't designed to be a "The Producers" style loophole for films that were never really going to be made.
The real problem is that the investments were leveraged by borrowing to allow the tax relief to be 10 x what it should have been, so then the tax laibility on these sham investments become about 4 x what was invested.
Then the tax relief was invested in bad property schemes and lost with the financial advisors taking massive commissions on the over priced investments. The documentary reckons there was a lot of fraud and forged signatures, but didn't say for which investments.
The HMRC was ripped off too so I don't see why the main blame at the end was on them, at the start it looked like they would go after the clubs for allowing these sharks access to their workplaces.
The creative industry tax incentives weren't designed to be a "The Producers" style loophole for films that were never really going to be made.
The real problem is that the investments were leveraged by borrowing to allow the tax relief to be 10 x what it should have been, so then the tax laibility on these sham investments become about 4 x what was invested.
Then the tax relief was invested in bad property schemes and lost with the financial advisors taking massive commissions on the over priced investments. The documentary reckons there was a lot of fraud and forged signatures, but didn't say for which investments.
The HMRC was ripped off too so I don't see why the main blame at the end was on them, at the start it looked like they would go after the clubs for allowing these sharks access to their workplaces.