French Tunisian and Kuwait Terrorist attacks {merged}

[bluemanc]

15 Brits confirmed dead.
Many in UK still trying to contact friends/family in area,doesn't bode well

 

[halfgoathalfotter]

Sorry mate it just dosnt sit right there's 39 dead and your posting about your hols mate .

I don't really see how they can send you to Tunisia as some of the hotels have emptied their holidaymakers and shut for the year according to Sky news, keep pestering them and threaten them with legal action, also isis have said yesterday was just the tip of the iceberg for attacks in North Africa and you can bet they will strike again, on that alone your travel company should be more considerate

I've just been on the travel agent again about changing my holiday as I'm supposed to being going there in August. It'll cost me 500 quid to change it as they're only allowing people travelling upto end of July the option of a free change. Gonna hold on for a week before I change anything in the hope they'll extend the option to change free of charge but it didn't sound likely they would do that. Haven't really got the 500 quid either but it's better than loosing the holiday or going on it!

don't apologise for your concerns mate,you have probably worked fucking hard all year for a two week break ,your kids are excited and you may have to disappoint them ,this is what the poor fuckers who have been mowed down wanted too,a break from the daily grind and the misery of the world.I would stick with it ,hope you get your cash back and enjoy a holiday,you may have to hope for a bit of blighty sunshine and hope that now extremist will blow up your pasty.genuinely all the best pal

 

[KenTheLandlord]

I haven't read that book.. I'll just say there has to be enough evidence.. as I just said - I see torture (if it has any chance of hailing correct information) could be permitted to a person known to have the info of a bomb that will kill people.

If you witnessed a man machine gunning innocents on a beach and you caught hold of him, and he said 'there is bomb that is going to go off, at such a time, it will kill more..' After trying your best with words and psychology, do you not spend the last 10 minutes trying to get the information out through pain?

I have no idea what i would do. Seriously. I doubt many would. One may feel they could be the hero and save the day, i am sure we could all dream that but how would you know he is telling the truth? after sending 20 people 20 different ways the bomb may well be somewhere else.

The point is though i would not have spent 20 pages moaning that the Spanish Inquisition and the church are a sack of shit for using torture as a means to gain info and then when it suits in his war on Islam, its fine.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

I have no doubt at all that a bigot like Hitchens would be standing right next to Harris either.

You seem impressed by Harris' intellect and this has made you emotional. I'm not, I think in most cases his books and talks on this subject are total shite. This is because he keeps saying stupid shit which fanboys like yourself get riled up over how brave he is to say it.

I'm not sure exactly how to define bravery but criticising Islam in a very heavily Christian country whilst sat in a comfy chair and having people cheers you and buy your books is probably not it.

Harris and Hitchens seem to have a Youtube-friendly following who presume that they know what they're talking about because they can express their ideas well. As earlier, people confuse looking like you're intelligent for having an intelligent opinion.

If what I've said makes me a Harris fanboy, then wouldn't it be fitting to describe you as a Chomsky fanboy (on the basis of you championing him in much the same way I'm doing here in respect of Harris)?

You come from the school of thought which holds the West primarily culpable in this violence, with faith taking a smaller role.

The Geopolitical dominance of the West, the globalisation and Westernisation of the wider world. The European Crusades in the Middle East thousands of years ago in the Middles Ages - etc etc.

These are all valid suppositions, worth reflecting on.

I just believe they're exaggerated.

Maajid Nawaz is a reformed Islamist, who served time in an Egyptian prison. He said the very thing that the Islamists used as a recruiting tool was that very narrative, and his epiphany came in realising it was total bollocks.

By championing that narrative of grievance and persecution you're inadvertently legitimising a Islamist recruiting tool. You're giving undue credence to a theory which many, many people dispute.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is another person worth listening to, who among the very real death threats for abandoning her faith and campaigning for reformation of it, she has faced the usual character assassination attempts from those on the political left.

And yes, let's be clear here, being vocally critical of Islam in a 'safe haven of a majority Christian country' takes courage, as it has proven a death sentence for many people. Theo van Gogh a prime example.

 

[BlueTangerine]

I have no idea what i would do. Seriously. I doubt many would. One may feel they could be the hero and save the day, i am sure we could all dream that but how would you know he is telling the truth? after sending 20 people 20 different ways the bomb may well be somewhere else.

The point is though i would not have spent 20 pages moaning that the Spanish Inquisition and the church are a sack of shit for using torture as a means to gain info and then when it suits in his war on Islam, its fine.

No, on the face of it it screams hypocrisy. I assume it had to do with evidence of getting real information though..

I hate torture, I hate pain. But when it's a maths equation eg. 1 man will suffer some pain vs you could prevent hundreds being blown up and burnt alive - in that instance, there is only one choice. As I say it is down to evidence and the likelihood of getting any accurate information. It's the ultimate last resort in my eyes.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

If what I've said makes me a Harris fanboy, then wouldn't it be fitting to describe you as a Chomsky fanboy (on the basis of you championing him in much the same way I'm doing here in respect of Harris)?

You come from the school of thought which holds the West primarily culpable in this violence, with faith taking a smaller role.

The Geopolitical dominance of the West, the globalisation and Westernisation of the wider world. The European Crusades in the Middle East thousands of years ago in the Middles Ages - etc etc.

These are all valid suppositions, worth reflecting on.

I just believe they're exaggerated.

Maajid Nawaz is a reformed Islamist, who served time in an Egyptian prison. He said the very thing that the Islamists used as a recruiting tool was that very narrative, and his epiphany came in realising it was total bollocks.

By championing that narrative of grievance and persecution you're inadvertently legitimising a Islamist recruiting tool. You're giving undue credence to a theory which many, many people dispute.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is another person worth listening to, who among the very real death threats for abandoning her faith and campaigning for reformation of it, she has faced the usual character assassination attempts from those on the political left.

And yes, let's be clear here, being vocally critical of Islam in a 'safe haven of a majority Christian country' takes courage, as it has proven a death sentence for many people. Theo van Gogh a prime example.

i guess the irony here is that she is married to Niall Ferguson who did the Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World. We organised the boundaries, the way of life and yet we are absolved of any of the problems that came with because we "civilised" them.

 

[East Level 2]

They've just rung me back and apologised as they got it mixed up. I can't change anything unless they extend free change to August, I can only cancel and lose 50% of the money

They are probably waiting for the Foreign Office to announce a travel ban and then they'll be a bit more reasonable. Perhaps they have insurance that only kicks in following FO advice.
Meanwhile you should give them some FO advice of your own before asking which newspaper and TV stations they'd like you to give the story to.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

If what I've said makes me a Harris fanboy, then wouldn't it be fitting to describe you as a Chomsky fanboy (on the basis of you championing him in much the same way I'm doing here in respect of Harris)?

You come from the school of thought which holds the West primarily culpable in this violence, with faith taking a smaller role.

The Geopolitical dominance of the West, the globalisation and Westernisation of the wider world. The European Crusades in the Middle East thousands of years ago in the Middles Ages - etc etc.

These are all valid suppositions, worth reflecting on.

I just believe they're exaggerated.

Maajid Nawaz is a reformed Islamist, who served time in an Egyptian prison. He said the very thing that the Islamists used as a recruiting tool was that very narrative, and his epiphany came in realising it was total bollocks.

By championing that narrative of grievance and persecution you're inadvertently legitimising a Islamist recruiting tool. You're giving undue credence to a theory which many, many people dispute.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is another person worth listening to, who among the very real death threats for abandoning her faith and campaigning for reformation of it, she has faced the usual character assassination attempts from those on the political left.

And yes, let's be clear here, being vocally critical of Islam in a 'safe haven of a majority Christian country' takes courage, as it has proven a death sentence for many people. Theo van Gogh a prime example.

This is an insightful and educated response, and I think you're winning the argument; Damo won't, obviously, but do carry on.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No, on the face of it it screams hypocrisy. I assume it had to do with evidence of getting real information though..

I hate torture, I hate pain. But when it's a maths equation eg. 1 man will suffer some pain vs you could prevent hundreds being blown up and burnt alive - in that instance, there is only one choice. As I say it is down to evidence and the likelihood of getting any accurate information. It's the ultimate last resort in my eyes.

Of course it is, the very nature of the intensity of discussion as to whether it is right/moral/correct/inevitable is that this is what one would resort to.
I would without question, but that's me.

 

[warspite]

Just heard on the BBC that one of those killed is from Whickham near Newcastle, it's only a small village and I have relatives there on my late Dads side