Gareth Barry

[conormcfc]

he does a great job for us, he's no gerrard or essien and in time we'll replace him, he knows that yet gives 100% every week.

Chelsea fans will tell you that Essien has been shite for well over a year now.

 

[BlueCityfan]

Do you want a great professional, someone who gives 100% or a good player?

He is crap, slow and gives away too many stupid fouls, not good enough to play for a top team. Sorry but facts are facts.

Barry and YaYa I don't think are good enough. Should replace them with some real quality that can make a difference.

Facts are facts.. the facts are Barry makes more tackles, passes and interceptions than De Jong and Yaya.

Maybe..but he is shit nowdays. Look at that brazil team. Every fucking inexperienced mdifielder there are twice the player Barry is.

Scottland was raped by that young Brazil side..lots of promising players that are still playing in brazil there.

I wonder if Barry would even make it to the Scottish team? Maybe alongside Adam in the centre.

We are supposed to have a title challenging side but then we play some overrated english players like Barry. Rather than looking for talent.

Ye, he has a good attitude and works well. But that matters more than the talent in england it seems.

I live in Spain and here the talent matters the most.

And if we really chose Yaya over Ramires..then we really fucked up. The thing is that we can never play high tempo game if we have barry in the team.

Ramires would be 2x better in that role. And Mancini really needs to stop playing 3 holding midfielders if we want to achieve anything.

Chelsea is really a model to follow. They got lots of talented players there. Lots of skilled players like Anelka, Essien, Ramires, Malouda, Lampard, Luiz.

The other top clubs fans also shares the opinion that Barry is shit.

He shouldn't be playing in a CL team. Atleast not as a starter. It's time for Mancini to look for players like Ramires. Agressive and hungry. Not slow and clumsy like Barry.

 

[Deleted member 14625]

Do you want a great professional, someone who gives 100% or a good player?

He is crap, slow and gives away too many stupid fouls, not good enough to play for a top team. Sorry but facts are facts.

Barry and YaYa I don't think are good enough. Should replace them with some real quality that can make a difference.

Facts are facts.. the facts are Barry makes more tackles, passes and interceptions than De Jong and Yaya.

I think in some isolated games he has. Yaya never puts a fuckin tackle in. But over the season de Jong will be ahead of him on tackles and successful passes and number of unsuccessful passes (of which Barry is the worst in our team).

 

[BIG DONKEY]

Look lads you can't keep defending players that can't make a single pass, have the pace of a snail and have 0 technical ability...and then moan and wonder why we get raped by teams like Dinamo Kiev

Good professional? Yes..cool..go to an office then

Whats needed is good players with technical quality.

 

[Andouble]

he does a great job for us, he's no gerrard or essien and in time we'll replace him, he knows that yet gives 100% every week.

Chelsea fans will tell you that Essien has been shite for well over a year now.

he hasn't been shite, he just isn't world class anymore. The injuries he's had really take the freakish athleticism he had away from him.

 

[BlueCityfan]

Look lads you can't keep defending players that can't make a single pass, have the pace of a snail and have 0 technical ability...and then moan and wonder why we get raped by teams like Dinamo Kiev

Good professional? Yes..cool..go to an office then

Whats needed is good players with technical quality.

Spot on mate.

 

[Dax777]

Facts are facts.. the facts are Barry makes more tackles, passes and interceptions than De Jong and Yaya.

I think in some isolated games he has. Yaya never puts a fuckin tackle in. But over the season de Jong will be ahead of him on tackles and successful passes and number of unsuccessful passes (of which Barry is the worst in our team).

When you average tackles, and interceptions per minutes played, Barry is head and shoulders above De Jong. So is the case if you average fouls per minutes played. He gives away fewer than De Jong. De Jong has a higher pass completion rate. But then again De Jong is the safety valve on the team, which means his passes are generally shot, safe and often in no-pressure areas. So by the nature of the kind of passes he is required to make, he is likely going to complete more.

Folks often want to ignore the facts when discussing Barry. Everything has to be within context. Just like De Jong gives away fewer passes than Barry, Barry gives away fewer passes than Silva and Yaya. The reason being, Silva and Yaya attempt riskier passes up field, and a high number of them are intercepted or go astray. This is not evidence they are worse than De Jong or Barry, it just means they are the ones who take the most risk i in the final third of the field. Where it is more likely to lose a pass, due to increase pressure, and a low risk of giving up a goal if you lose the ball there. Similarly, Barry takes more risks than De Jong, as he is the DM who joins the offense while De Jong holds.

Thus, stats that show an inverse correlation between % of passes completed and how far up the field you play, is quite normal. You'd expect your CD's to lose the fewest passes (expecially if you differentiate between clearances and passes, which most stats do). You'd expect the DMs to loose less then the AM's & Fullbacks (if they are attacking FBs) this is normal.

But there is no such correlation between tackles won and position on the field. The lower down the field you are, the more tackles and interceptions you should win. The fact that Barry wins more tackles and Interceptions than De Jong is an anomaly that suggests Barry is way better than he is getting credit for.

 

[BlueCityfan]

When you compare our central midfield with Chelseas for example:

City:

Yaya-Barry-De Jong

Chelsea:

Essien-Lampard-Ramires

What do you think is the big difference? Tbh...suddenly... Our central midfield looks like the weak link.

One thing is for sure..i would swap our centre midfielders for Chelseas anyday :D

 

[LoveCity]

The fact that Barry wins more tackles and Interceptions than De Jong is an anomaly that suggests Barry is way better than he is getting credit for.

Watching the games, it is clear 9 times out of 10 that De Jong is far more important than Barry and plays better more consistently. De Jong is one of the best DM for breaking up play in Europe at the moment, and Barry lacks the tenacity and drive that De Jong has.

Barry does get forward more but offers nothing, he has minimal creativity, no pace to trouble a defence, and so many of his passes lately seem to go nowhere or to the opponents' feet (last game alone, he passed it twice to an opponent - and they weren't daring passes - destroying our attacking sequence and putting us in a dangerous position. De Jong RARELY does this, let alone twice in one game.).

You can talk about statistics on tackles made but it is as clear as the sky being blue that De Jong makes far more crucial tackles than Barry, breaking up play in dangerous areas. The problems begin here with the lack of an expressive midfielder nearby meaning we often see Tevez or Silva dropping deep leaving us short up front. This isn't De Jong's fault and is easily remedied, something I hope Mancini does remedy in summer.

De Jong has his role, almost identical to Makelele's at Chelsea in their winning formula (win the ball, give it to someone skillful, continue protecting defence), and like I said in another post it works perfectly for Holland with Sneijder and VDV nearby. All 3 MFs don't need to be creative when you have one who specializes so outstandingly at what he does like De Jong. Two creative minded midfielders is more than enough, but sadly we don't even have ONE to play with De Jong. Barry is slow and has no vision, Yaya has his moments but they are far too infrequent.

I have this feeling that if you put Mourinho, Ferguson, Mancini, Guardiola, and Ancelotti together and asked them who they would have in their team - De Jong or Barry - if given a choice, 5/5 would choose De Jong who starts for a much better national side than England and who has been one of our most important defensive components for 2 years now. The second he was out with injury our defence suddenly went back to Hughes level unease and Barry was unable to protect them in the same way.

The only time the two of them have been needed together is when we had a war in midfield to win, like we did against Chelsea three times in a row.

 

[Dax777]

The fact that Barry wins more tackles and Interceptions than De Jong is an anomaly that suggests Barry is way better than he is getting credit for.

Watching the games, it is clear 9 times out of 10 that De Jong is far more important than Barry and plays better more consistently. De Jong is one of the best DM for breaking up play in Europe at the moment, and Barry lacks the tenacity and drive that De Jong has.

This is all nice and good to say. But the fact seems to show Barry breaking up more tackles. I am not arguing who is better, just simply saying if Barry is breaking up more tackles than De Jong, and you think De Jong is great, then surely Barry CANT be shit. Simply an indirect deduction.

Barry does get forward more but offers nothing, he has minimal creativity, no pace to trouble a defence, and so many of his passes lately seem to go nowhere or to the opponents' feet (last game alone, he passed it twice to an opponent - and they weren't daring passes - destroying our attacking sequence and putting us in a dangerous position. De Jong RARELY does this, let alone twice in one game.).

Again, like I said already, De Jong gives fewer dangerous passes. Butin terms of giving the ball away, in the last game alone, Kolarov 15, Dzeko 13, Milner 12, RIchards 10, Silva 9, Yaya 8, and Barry 7. That is more than half the team giving up more possession, matter of fact only De Jong and Kompany gave it up fewer times. Of all his missed passes, only one put us under pressure.

You can talk about statistics on tackles made but it is as clear as the sky being blue that De Jong makes far more crucial tackles than Barry, breaking up play in dangerous areas.

True, De Jong makes more crucial tackles. But if Barry had not made the tackles he made, most of those plays may have turned into a crucial moment. The question you have to ask is this- Will De Jong have gotten to all of them? Probably not! So underminning his tackles for not being crucial, is really not a strong claim. Barca seldom make any crucial tackles, coz they'd rather disposses you early, rather than wait till it is dangerous. Does that makeBusquet worse than De Jong? I doubt it. Just different.

The problems begin here with the lack of an expressive midfielder nearby meaning we often see Tevez or Silva dropping deep leaving us short up front. This isn't De Jong's fault and is easily remedied, something I hope Mancini does remedy in summer.

Let's assume you are right, and that is the problem. Your problem is that you have an undynamic and single minded approach to solving it. You believe getting a more creative midfielder is the key. It could very well just be that we need a less defensive DM who simply specializes in making tackles, and need one who is much more of a creative. United is running away with the League, and they don't have any enforcer sitting in the hole. Matter of fact they have players like, Gibson, Henderson and the 3rd guy who are all pretty much like Barry. They do a little of everything, rather than being specialist at 1 thing, and being immaculately deficient at others.

De Jong has his role, almost identical to Makelele's at Chelsea in their winning formula (win the ball, give it to someone skillful, continue protecting defence), and like I said in another post it works perfectly for Holland with Sneijder and VDV nearby.

Great! But so does having 3 guys who can all just swap positions seamlessly. Alonzo, Khadera, and Diarra do it to perfection for Real Madrid often. Lampard, Wilshere and Parker had a similar look for England the other day. And United does it with Scholes Carrick, and the dirty Blonde. There is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

All 3 MFs don't need to be creative when you have one who specializes so outstandingly at what he does like De Jong.

And De Jong will be great on a counter attacking team, but City possesses the ball over 63% of the time on average, but are able to create fewer chances than their average suggests. So maybe we need less holding and more joining the play

Two creative minded midfielders is more than enough, but sadly we don't even have ONE to play with De Jong. Barry is slow and has no vision, Yaya has his moments but they are far too infrequent.

Maybe if we had 3, since all play a little DM, they could interchange seamlessly!

I have this feeling that if you put Mourinho, Ferguson, Mancini, Guardiola, and Ancelotti together and asked them who they would have in their team - De Jong or Barry - if given a choice, 5/5 would choose De Jong

Like you said, it is just a feeling. :P Not to mention I am not arguing who is better, just suggesting who isn't terrible

He starts for a much better national side than England and who has been one of our most important defensive components for 2 years now. The second he was out with injury our defence suddenly went back to Hughes level unease and Barry was unable to protect them in the same way.

I don't reckon this is true. Not to mention De Jong's injury coincided with a hifh number of fluctuations in starters (i.e. there were other injuries too) So, our disorganization could have being as muc a function of the changes overall, than any single change in particular.

The only time the two of them have been needed together is when we had a war in midfield to win, like we did against Chelsea three times in a row.

This I agree, all other times we should just play Barry. Who is defensive enough to stifle weak teams, and go get a skilled mid who can improve the interplay against smaller clubs