Gareth Southgate knighted

[cheekybids]

Pretty much perfect @cheekybids so I feel bad doing this, but it's better you just edit your post - 1982 was Czechoslovakia not Romania. We might have played Romania in qualifying for that though, along with Hungary I think.

Don’t apologise your right & I’m thinking maybe Hungary in qualifying cos I remember Brooking scoring & the ball got stuck in the top on the net.

 

[supercity88]

Not significantly better than Hodgson. If Southgate met any of the stronger Footballing nations on a consistant basis he wouldn't have been by a long chalk. 30 seconds away of equalling Hodgson's feat in crashing out against lesser opponents.

He was significantly better than Hodgson because he didn't crash out to lesser opponents. Fine margins but that's just how it works. If he'd have won one of these tournaments he'd have been equal or close to Sir Alf. Instead, when taking into account the opposition he's level 2nd with a fair few others!

 

[RayCTID]

Either Southgate is utterly hopeless, or just about every England player is hugely overrated. In every big game against good sides we had about 30% possession and just hoofed it long to an isolated and immobile centre forward. We are constantly told we have multiple world class players, many of whom look just that at club level. Phil is a great example. It is one or the other, and in my book Southgate is pedestrian and uninspiring at best. His main plus point is that Stones never misses a game for him, whereas he seems permanently unfit or not quite fit for us.

Southgate was hopeless despite being praised about squad unity. Didn't deal with either the Sterling and Gomez rumblings or Bellingham's oversized ego and promoting him amongst England's leadership group.

 

[RayCTID]

He was significantly better than Hodgson because he didn't crash out to lesser opponents. Fine margins but that's just how it works. If he'd have won one of these tournaments he'd have been equal or close to Sir Alf. Instead, when taking into account the opposition he's level 2nd with a fair few others!

Not really. Got lucky in all his tournaments. Ended in glorified failure.

 

[GortonBlue62]

Yep. Although Southgate was clearly a limited manager, his track record in getting England through to tournament finals and semis can’t be disputed - even if we sometimes got lucky with draws. The next manager will be under huge pressure to go one better than Southgate ie win something….not easy !

If GS's teams had played with energy of Spain and Georgia and achieved 'only' the same results, he'd still have the backing of the England fans and wouldn't have needed to resign.

The sad fact is he's operated in an amazingly advantageous environment, with enough technically gifted players at his disposal to have produced a winning and exciting team.

Everything is in place for England to succeed at international level. Everything that is except for a competent manager.

My rather simplistic definition of a good manager is someone who can produce a team that is greater than the sum its parts. Pep may be the ultimate exaple of that. GS's teams were less than the sum of their parts.

 

[RayCTID]

We’ve tried non English ones not exactly been fantastic successes.

Even the English coaches have been failures.The FA aren't brilliant in sourcing replacements.

 

[Blue Til Death]

That is a very simplistic way of viewing things. There are plenty of examples of managers being successful without actually winning anything.

If you compare the situation that Southgate inherited to what he has left, I don’t see how anyone can argue his stint has not been an overall success.

I understand the whole easy draw argument but he can only beat what’s in front of him. It wasn’t so long ago that England failed to beat the likes of Costa Rica, Iceland and USA in major tournaments. Now we are regularly making the latter stages.

His ultimate undoing seems to be based on our style of play and performances rather than results. You only have to look at the likes of United and Chelsea to realise it takes more than having quality individuals to become a team who plays great football. It’s even harder to get a side to gel at international level due to the lack of preparation time.

It’s not simplistic at all to me, some managers, including Southgate, would be classed as successful doing what he’s done with mediocre players but getting the best out of them. He has had the best players for a generation and completely neutralised them, the groups England have had in all three competitions have been very poor yet we still struggled to win games with such a talented squad of players …
The team have made a WC Semi and two Euro finals despite him, not because of him.. All three of those games we could and should have won ..

He lacks the courage and ability required at this level, simple as that, he’s a lucky fucker though I will give him that…!

 

[RayCTID]

He was significantly better than Hodgson because he didn't crash out to lesser opponents. Fine margins but that's just how it works. If he'd have won one of these tournaments he'd have been equal or close to Sir Alf. Instead, when taking into account the opposition he's level 2nd with a fair few others!

Souhgate was poop. Only against Germany he has been successful playing against amongst the stronger nations and even they were looking needing to reset. Muller's miss was telling.

 

[kunaguero10]

Good riddance

Well done for uniting the team & country, but he outstayed his welcome by 6 years

Fuck knows what approach the FA will take now, they need a proper manager and winner to push on now, but no doubt they'll get another English yes man who fits the safe mould

 

[hilts]

Sorry but it’s just so funny seeing people who get angry about the FIFA world rankings every time they come out suddenly pretend they actually matter how they sort of (but not actually) help your argument.

Southgate is Englands most successful manager in 50 years, fact.

If you can’t admit that no FA would ever fire their most successful manager in living memory because they *only* achieved the best results in 50 years then perhaps you need to recognise you’ve lost all sense of rationality about Southgate.

Fact he hasn't beaten a good team in 4 tournaments and plays shit football, now you maybe a guy who gets a hard on if city beat scunthorpe Oldham Bury Kettering and then get beat by arsenal Newcastle or scum in the final or semi, yippee for you but it's a losers mentality.

Did Federer walk round with a grin on his face after beating poorer players and then expect praise if Murray did him? No because he's a winner.

It's not an achievement in any sport to only beat worse teams on your way to actually winning fuck all.

You're a wenger top 4 trophy guy, well done on not understanding what an actual sporting achievement is.

Daddy how good were you as england manager? I got to a final it was quite the achievement son.

Wow who did you beat?

It's your bedtime young Harry

But Jude is still up

He's special son it's why you're in the box room.

What does wanker mean daddy someone at schoo........

Bed now!

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Peps never going to take it, even if offered. The question is who replaces him? I can’t see any outstanding candidates. Not English ones anyway.

Does he need to be English? If so who? If not, who?

According to your philosophy, our players are just crap and the manager is an irrelevance to how they have played in Germany. So it makes no diferrence if the manager is outstanding or not? Can't have it both ways Magic?

 

[mackenzie]

Nice enough fella but he should have quit after the final against Italy and given a more innovative manager a chance to build on some of the good foundations he had put in place.

 

[City Hobgoblin]

Ancelotti

 

[prestonibbo_mcfc]

I don't get this wishing he turns up at the rags. Southgate is one lucky manager. The last thing we want is the rags winning under him with his luck

He was never that lucky.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

Lee Carsley. Christ sake surely not.

 

[hilts]

Successful at what?

He didn't win anything

He was successful at not winning anything but still successful as he was less unsuccessful at being successful. You don't have to win to be successful even though winning is a success. Wales had a parade for being unsuccessful in a semi final, but England bested them by being both successful and unsuccessful getting to a final. Wales are much smaller nation but ability and expectation doesn't come into it.

It's also important to note you could play a good Brazillian side in the last 16 and lose on penalties. That is unsuccesful. You could beat Panama and North Macedonia on the way to losing to Croatia and that is a success.

Although an unsuccessful success.

To clarify if you win you are successful

If you lose you are obviously unsuccessful but can also be successful.

The draw you get and the players at your disposal have no bearing on what is deemed a unsuccessful success

The secret to being a good manager is therefore just a matter of avoiding those pesky teams, you know the ones with good players and a good manager. If you don't you will be just plain unsuccessful.


I think that just about clears up the fuckwits point of view.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I would prefer an English manager, but if Klopp rang the FA and said I would like the job, there would be no objections from me.

 

[hilts]

He was never that lucky.

In his defence he never played anyone quite shit enough all the way to the final to actual win.

 

[hilts]

Fun in the sense of having a nice time with my mates and my Dad, watching in a range of pubs around Manchester where there was enough time to settle into a tournament before we were going home, with enough moments I'll remember for the rest of my life, and not getting dumped out in increasingly embarrassing ways.

I'm too young to remember 90 and Southgate was involved in 96! Everything else, including 04, was shite, embarrassing, or painful. 06-16 was shocking really.

I don't want to go overboard on him, it's definitely time for a change and he's far from an elite manager, but being a great tactical manager isn't always right for England.

I was nodding till the last sentence.

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

This is the Bosses opinion on Potter

Guardiola admitted that he was a "big fan" of Potter, saying that Potter's "Brighton are a joy to watch, a joy to analyse" and that his "players move with freedom and everyone knows what they have to do. They have the courage to play everywhere."