General Election June 8th

[Metal Biker]

The momentum mob running Labour can't stand the centrist view. They think everyone who does not support an outright socialist government is a right wing, racist, Tory, tax dodging war mongerer. The reality is as in my personal situation, Corbyn threatens defence and therefore my job, he will hit my taxes and his cronies will bankrupt the country.

He will go to town on peoples tax, hurt any company wanting to make money and therefore job creation and investment will collapse. Everyone will end up on strike, every pub will be virtually put out of business because he will bump up the minimum wage and we will become a country of people desperately hoping for work whilst struggling to prop up the biggest group of money sinks in history.

I am no fan of the Tories so far, I think they have been very weak and their machine has dressed it up so far very well. I would still vote for a Blair type government tomorrow but that option is not on the table. At the minute it looks a bit bleak but I would keep the status quo just to get these morons out of Labour.

Anything right of the far left stance on the political spectrum is now considered 'far right' by them. They've attacked liberal viewpoints, centrist, even left wing ones because they aren't 'left wing' enough. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground in their eyes. Even the name of the group, 'Momentum', sounds like it was formed in a liberal arts college.

Overall the party lacks direction, professionalism, inclusion of other political viewpoints and stances and general treats voters as 'the enemy' if they disagree with them. Not to mention The Sun said Corbyn was a stupidhead, so that's the main reason we mostly don't like Labour these days. :)

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Simply ignoring the facts again.
He was elected with 49.6% of the full members votes (in a 4 horse race) & 57.6% of affiliate votes, so the £3 registered supporters had absolutely no bearing on his leadership election victory (or his re-election after the cowardly chicken coup), but hey, in typical tory fashion, ifor you tell a big enough lie often enough, people will begin to believe it.

I have checked the facts of this and yes, you're correct, it appears that even with the massive surge because
of the £3, who could vote for Jezza, and did, amazingly the full membership did too, so my error.
It seems even the established members are intent on Hara-Kiri

 

[Metal Biker]

don't confuse Labour with the Bliar project New Labour which most Labour supporters reject. Hi victories were as much down to wooing the Tory vote by any means he could and the fact that the Tories - like Labour now - were seen as weak

Bliarites still exist in the party and not in any non-influential capacity. Cooper, Abbott, Smith, Thornberry, Lammy et al, career politicians who champion the cause of the poor whilst living the highlife, champagne socialists in every sense of the word, they are not representative of the general public.

Labour didn't win by wooing the 'Tory' vote, they won by going for the centrist voter. Labour are either seen as 'Red Tories' or edging towards 'far left'. It's not an attractive mindset to many voters in the UK, especially whenever people do air these concerns they have about the Labour Party they get lambasted by them for being stupid or 'easily manipulated by the fascist Murdoch media'. It turns people away from them, not convinces them to change their views.

 

[Metal Biker]

It's the only thing the left ever talk about, Murdoch's fucking papers, according to them, they are the sole reason everyone
votes for the Conservatives, if only they'd read the Mirror or Guardian, they would then all see how brilliant Jezza's socialism
is.

Labour are either very thin skinned or aggressively defensive regarding criticism about their party and their members.
Criticism is often met (i've found) with accusations about the persons character. If you dislike Labour, you're a Tory in their eyes, or unbelievably stupid, fascist, racist or both!

There's a smorgesbord of insults aimed at anyone who is critical of Corbyn, Labour, Momentum by Labour supporters these days. It's become a party of hatred, the hate aimed at any and all who disagree. And they're asking me for my support to put them in power? To have total control over me? How bad must Labour be these days if people see the Conservatives as the more attractive option?

 

[mcfc1632]

Labour didn't win by wooing the 'Tory' vote, they won by going for the centrist voter. Labour are either seen as 'Red Tories' or edging towards 'far left'.

Is this not now, in reverse, what May is doing in the run up to this election in the way she is lining up to have the powers to be able to reverse previous positions on Tax and Pensions as well as other areas.

I can see, should the majority be substantial, the UK will see May dragging the Conservative party to the left and hoover up a majority of the centre left and centre right voters

Post-Brexit the government needs a massive warchest and maximum flexibility to secure and maintain this through control of tax revenues and if necessary reducing the burden in areas of cost - hardly anything should be sacrosanct - including pensions.

I think that a lot of people are missing that the highly possible outcome, should May get returned with a large majority, that the Conservatives will be set for a very long time. This is because the Momentum controlled Labour Party will take a very long time to shift back from the ‘far-left’ and the reality is therefore that they will gain only limited levels of support – simply because there is only a limited percentage of the UK population that share that ground.

It is even conceivable that the LDs could indeed become the major opposition party – but that really means that there will be 2 relatively minor parties that do not have enough in common to form a coalition.

We live in interesting times

 

[mcfc1632]

I think it's disgraceful/ Why didn't the Labour Government from 1997-2008 do anything to force him to pay it?

This is likely to be because they are only capable of ‘opposing’ and making ‘pledges’ but pretty useless at actually ‘doing’ anything.

 

[TCIB]

Why do they do these cringy photo things on their campaigns. The BBC shows Miliband mowing someones lawn in his suit whilst the family look on, honest now swap him for Kim fay sod and it would easily be a shitty propaganda poster we would laugh at North Korea for doing. I do mow my lawn and i don't do it in a bloody suit xD not that he would even know how to turn the fucker on probably hehe.

My point is be sincere, these things do not help you, it makes me suspicious of you.

Kind Regards,
Some voter

 

[Ricster]

Seems that the more extreme Remainer / Left posters on here just always seem to distract from and take out of context perfectly reasonable posts of others - you are certainly not alone

So you end up not really responding to MB's post - more distracting from its content and turning it around to a topic you feel more comfortable with - slagging off Murdoch.

What on earth would be the value of MB providing his:

"........................stance on the lack of tax Murdoch has paid since 1987?"

It would only be a distraction from the topic that this thread is about - perhaps that is the intention? It is what others have done in the Brexit and Scottish Referendum threads?

I'm asking about Murdoch and his influence because one of Labours policies is to go after people like Murdoch. How does that distract from the GE topic? I thought the whole point in this thread is to cover policies, unearth as much as you can and hopefully help others who maybe don't know which way to vote.

Unfortunately others use it as a dick waving contest

 

[Ricster]

I

I think it's disgraceful/ Why didn't the Labour Government from 1997-2008 do anything to force him to pay it?

Could it be because Labour these days are no different to the Tories in that regard since Murdoch was 'useful' to them in gaining power? That's all Labour are to me these days; obsessed with gaining power: prepared to abandon their principles at a whim in order to attain it.

im pretty sure most posters find it disgraceful that such an influential man can get away with that over the years and attempt tosway public opinion.
I'd be very interested to see how Murdoch represented Blair and let's not forget the slogan "New Labour" or Tories Reserves as they were also seen as.
I vote by policies and not by party. I really don't understand those who vote for a party cos granddaddy used to.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Ricster]

Labour are either very thin skinned or aggressively defensive regarding criticism about their party and their members.
Criticism is often met (i've found) with accusations about the persons character. If you dislike Labour, you're a Tory in their eyes, or unbelievably stupid, fascist, racist or both!

There's a smorgesbord of insults aimed at anyone who is critical of Corbyn, Labour, Momentum by Labour supporters these days. It's become a party of hatred, the hate aimed at any and all who disagree. And they're asking me for my support to put them in power? To have total control over me? How bad must Labour be these days if people see the Conservatives as the more attractive option?

Where have a I been thin skinned or aggressively defensive? I even thanked you in my last reply.

 

[mat]

Well....A Tory PM playing the xenophobia card to look strong in a grab for votes. Who'd have thunk it?

I suppose the only plus is that's UKIP dead and buried now.

 

[Metal Biker]

Where have a I been thin skinned or aggressively defensive? I even thanked you in my last reply.

I haven't mentioned you, nor was that post meant to refer to you.It referred to Labour politicians and the more vocal defenders such as personalities in the press/social media and political figures.

Apologies if you felt it was aimed at you. I assure you that was not the intention.

 

[Ricster]

I haven't mentioned you, nor was that post meant to refer to you.It referred to Labour politicians and the more vocal defenders such as personalities in the press/social media and political figures.

Apologies if you felt it was aimed at you. I assure you that was not the intention.

Unfortunately celebs and personalities seem to think their voices are louder than yours or mine. Whether it's Lilly Allen, JK Rowling or Gary Lineker (who failed to comment on The bbcs tweet about Pete the badge, but been very vocal about mental health cuts in the past) It certainly didn't do Hilary any favours during her election battle with Trump.

Sorry for getting you to explain who you were commenting on, maybe I'm more thin skinned than I thought ;)

 

[mcfc1632]

I'm asking about Murdoch and his influence because one of Labours policies is to go after people like Murdoch. How does that distract from the GE topic? I thought the whole point in this thread is to cover policies, unearth as much as you can and hopefully help others who maybe don't know which way to vote.

Unfortunately others use it as a dick waving contest

Who does not think that Murdoch should be 'gone after'? - of course he should. Same with big corporations that do not pay there taxes etc.

In that sense you make an entirely valid point - but I thought at the time that it was not really relevant to / a distraction from MB's post

Perhaps I was just carrying on an hangover from the A50 thread where there are a lot of posts made which have no substance - the intent being simply to distract from messages poster do not want to hear it seems.

Anyway, back on topic, whilst going after Murdoch, corporations etc. should have the support of everyone, the concerns that I have with that stance and Labour's campaign to this point are:

1. The stance loses credibility as people will think - well why did not Labour pursue this when they were in power for all those years? Not enough people recognise that the 'previous' Labour was not 'Real' Labour. and

2. the number of 'stumbles' that we are seeing from key Labour politicians, especially, how they seem to keep using the 'same money' to fund a myriad of commitments, I believe erodes public confidence that the promises are credible and will be delivered upon and not just election campaign slogans

 

[SWP's back]

Still nobody wants to talk about the lack of tax Murdoch has paid since 1987, but no, those who are definitely anti Corbyn resort to petty sarcasm rather than general discussion.

Do you mean News Corp or do you mean the Australian born naturalised American who lives in and pays tax in, the United States?

 

[SWP's back]

I'm asking about Murdoch and his influence because one of Labours policies is to go after people like Murdoch. How does that distract from the GE topic? I thought the whole point in this thread is to cover policies, unearth as much as you can and hopefully help others who maybe don't know which way to vote.

Unfortunately others use it as a dick waving contest

Again you're confusing the individual and the corporation.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Do you mean News Corp or do you mean the Australian born naturalised American who lives in and pays tax in, the United States?

You're making a distinction between the man and the company? He's had government in thrall to him since 1979 and News Corp pays an average of just over 1.2% corporation tax. The man is an odious hypocrite who should ensure his companies pay their dues.

 

[crystal_mais]

The momentum mob running Labour can't stand the centrist view. They think everyone who does not support an outright socialist government is a right wing, racist, Tory, tax dodging war mongerer. The reality is as in my personal situation, Corbyn threatens defence and therefore my job, he will hit my taxes and his cronies will bankrupt the country.

He will go to town on peoples tax, hurt any company wanting to make money and therefore job creation and investment will collapse. Everyone will end up on strike, every pub will be virtually put out of business because he will bump up the minimum wage and we will become a country of people desperately hoping for work whilst struggling to prop up the biggest group of money sinks in history.

I am no fan of the Tories so far, I think they have been very weak and their machine has dressed it up so far very well. I would still vote for a Blair type government tomorrow but that option is not on the table. At the minute it looks a bit bleak but I would keep the status quo just to get these morons out of Labour.

This is my opinion totally -

This has got to be the worst election options available in my lifetime of voting - 5 of Corbyn's manifesto hurt me and my family personally and I ain't no big fan of May. It ends up voting for the lesser of the 2 evils or I may just look at the Lib Dems

 

[M18CTID]

I

im pretty sure most posters find it disgraceful that such an influential man can get away with that over the years and attempt tosway public opinion.
I'd be very interested to see how Murdoch represented Blair and let's not forget the slogan "New Labour" or Tories Reserves as they were also seen as.
I vote by policies and not by party. I really don't understand those who vote for a party cos granddaddy used to.

Thanks for the reply

Neither do I, and it's why I don't see Labour as the be all and end all these days, but there was a time when I was guilty of it as I'm sure many others would concur.

By the way, I think Murdoch's a **** and I'm voting Conservative. Albeit reluctantly.

 

[kaz7]

For the first time i am not going to vote,i can't vote for my party whilst they are led by that muppet and the tories are still the nasty party to those of us in a vulnerable position