General Election June 8th

Who will you vote for at the General Election?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 189 28.8%
  • Labour

    Votes: 366 55.8%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 37 5.6%
  • SNP

    Votes: 8 1.2%
  • UKIP

    Votes: 23 3.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 33 5.0%

  • Total voters
    656
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Here's a basket for you Ken:

The country is about to enter into a prolonged phase of significant turmoil over Brexit. There's clouds looming on the horizon. Countless foreign businesses, based here in the UK are sitting waiting, considering their options. They are worried about how they will continue to attract the necessary skilled workers. They are wondering how Brexit will impact upon their ability to export to the EU, which is why many of them are based in the UK in the first place. They are worried about how they are going to contain their costs in order to remain competitive.

And Labour are proposing to unilaterally increase corporation tax to 7 points above the European average.

How many eggs do you want in that lunatic basket? Do you think it's just possibly the wrong thing to do? Do you imagine for one moment that we should be doing everything possible to encourage the likes of Nissan, Honda, Toyota, UBS, Deutche Bank, Astra Zeneca, GSK, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Hitachi to stay in the UK? Do you think that might be a good idea?

Or should we clobber them with more tax and employment costs? Which do you think is a good idea right now?

Bear in mind, if this hair brain labour idea falls flat, there's an even bigger great big coach and horses hole through their costings and spending plans.
Not that the question has been asked of me (apologies to Ken) but the answer to your question is very simple, labour are offering single market and customs unions to all the companies above. That should be an incentive enough. It gives them more business (or lets them keep their business as is) and less uncertainty over what might happen.

Moreover, due to complexities of organisational structures, a lot of overseas companies do not pay much corporation tax so a 7% rise would not make much of a difference and would be more than offset by the incentives of single market and customs union.

Finally, another simple point, if my business generates an extra £1m in profit by staying in single market and customs union, I would happily pay an extra £70k in tax. Overall, I would have made an extra £930k.
 
Went over my head? really?. its exactly what I said in the 1st post you quoted. You seem to just want to argue for the sake of it.

Genuinely, I am sorry I must have missed it. I thought you were asking why my comments about peoples' pensions being worse and prices going up etc, matters. That's what I thought you were saying / asking.
 
Not that the question has been asked of me (apologies to Ken) but the answer to your question is very simple, labour are offering single market and customs unions to all the companies above.

How do you think they are going to deliver that, given that the EU have made it absolutely clear that membership of the single market MEANS accepting free movement of labour and being bound by EU laws and regulations?

Are you suggesting Labour will simply ignore the wishes of the British people and accept free movement and subservience to EU law?

You see as you start to drill down into uncle Jeremy's sweet shop of promised goodies, you start to realise not everything is as sweet as he makes out.
 
Whilst some of that is valid you need to stop with the European average for corporation tax. IF those companies were to relocate they are NOT going to Romania, Bulgaria, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. The likely suspects, France, Germany, Italy, Belgium all have corporation tax above the rate proposed by the Labour Party.
Ireland is a tasty 12.5% though and in the EU.
 
If it happens, I dont beleive a word from the sun and the mail which seem to be the only ones reporting it would be a rise.


How is that relivent to someones personal salary?


As is the same for everyone.


Its an assumption that cant really be guessed at.


If you want better services for everyone, its got to be paid for, Labour have chosen a tax hike for the top 5% of earners for a big chunk of that. so the vast top 5% will complain. Not a lot else to say. From a manifesto point of view though, its actually quite clever, preching tothe 95% in the lower brackets.


I should add, Im not a labour supporter, But I just dont see 5p extra on the top 5% of earners as much of an issue, I do admit I would have actually doubled that 80k as 160k+ is the top 1%. and most of the extra revinue will come from that bracket anyway.
Indeed.

FTR if the very top rate went up 5% our £80k, even our £160 pa earners won't be touched.

But if you earn say £200k pa it would mean an extra £2500 pa, £208 pm or £48 pw...

It's up to each individual to decide whether that's fair or reasonable, or necessary at this time.
 
How do you think they are going to deliver that, given that the EU have made it absolutely clear that membership of the single market MEANS accepting free movement of labour and being bound by EU laws and regulations?

Are you suggesting Labour will simply ignore the wishes of the British people and accept free movement and subservience to EU law?
I am not suggesting anything, I am only giving you an answer to what Labour have proposed.

I would however add that from what I recall, an end to free movement and subservience to EU law was not on the Brexit ballot paper, it's Tory's version of Brexit means Brexit. People who have a prejudice to this position try to associate it with Brexit when it is NOT a fact. It is an assumed position.
 
I'm still awaiting Ken's reply as to whether he thinks raising corporation tax to 27% is a great idea, given where we are re Brexit. To help him, I thought it might be useful to remind him of what he was saying pre and post the Brexit vote. For example:

More bad news for <May> and her team today too as the EU are preparing for tenders to leave London and relocate to Europe for the Banking and Medicine industries. Copenhagen, Amsterdam, Milan, Stockholm, Frankfurt, Paris, Barcelona and Dublin are all front runners but there is plenty more in the pipeline. They would be mighty pissed off if they remained in the UK, outside the EU whilst all the knock on jobs that these thing create are left wanting.

https://www.ft.com/content/72ead180-229a-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16
 
I am not suggesting anything, I am only giving you an answer to what Labour have proposed.

I would however add that from what I recall, an end to free movement and subservience to EU law was not on the Brexit ballot paper, it's Tory's version of Brexit means Brexit. People who have a prejudice to this position try to associate it with Brexit when it is NOT a fact. It is an assumed position.

FWIW I was and remain, a remainer. I didn't want any Brexit eggs, hard, soft, poached or fried. But that said, I thought throughout the referendum debate that THE biggest thing on the mind of most people voting for Brexit was immigration, and I still think that's true. There would be a riot I think if any party said they were to abandon any ideas of immigration control.
 
Jaysus, didn't know it was that low.

Guess it's manageable for them because of the small population.
Hungary is 9%. They are in the EU as well. Oracle moved their procurement, HR and various administrative operations there from the UK not long back.
 
Genuinely, I am sorry I must have missed it. I thought you were asking why my comments about peoples' pensions being worse and prices going up etc, matters. That's what I thought you were saying / asking.

No worries, I probably should have used the term living up to there means rather than living within there means.
 
Here's a basket for you Ken:

The country is about to enter into a prolonged phase of significant turmoil over Brexit. There's clouds looming on the horizon. Countless foreign businesses, based here in the UK are sitting waiting, considering their options. They are worried about how they will continue to attract the necessary skilled workers. They are wondering how Brexit will impact upon their ability to export to the EU, which is why many of them are based in the UK in the first place. They are worried about how they are going to contain their costs in order to remain competitive.

And Labour are proposing to unilaterally increase corporation tax to 7 points above the European average.

How many eggs do you want in that lunatic basket? Do you think it's just possibly the wrong thing to do? Do you imagine for one moment that we should be doing everything possible to encourage the likes of Nissan, Honda, Toyota, UBS, Deutche Bank, Astra Zeneca, GSK, Fujitsu, Mitsubishi, Hitachi to stay in the UK? Do you think that might be a good idea?

Or should we clobber them with more tax and employment costs? Which do you think is a good idea right now?

Bear in mind, if this hair brain labour idea falls flat, there's an even bigger great big coach and horses hole through their costings and spending plans.

Good question. Firstly can you reveal your source for 7% above the EU average?
Although it is interesting you used the term average knowing that most are in countries that are termed less developed and not in the picture.
Lets look at equivalents and you can stop running the country down. Germany 29.29%, France 33% and Italy 24%. https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/se...x-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html
I have picked those 3 as we are all in the top 10 economies. Now, moving up to 26% is not that bad is it? Seems more line with what our similar competitors are charging. In fact the top two are higher, so all those companies will not be jumping that quick.
I realise that the tories want to see us as an offshore tax dodge but that will not help us, the people living here. The brexit negotiations will be difficult but trotting about saying if we dont get our way its no deal and the equally moronic bad deal are setting us up for a fail. To get a good deal, both sides have to walk away with something. There will have to be give and take and compromise. Now, here is a thought, one of the gives we can deal with is corporation tax and the fact we know the EU are not happy with the threat of 17%. We can use that as a barter for other things that will benefit the country. We are happy we have the extra tax money, the EU will not see us as an offshore tax haven and the companies might as well stay as they would have to pay more if they went to France or Germany anyway.
Now you seem to think that employment costs, the biggest being paying the ungrateful wretches that work in those places, is a problem. Now, when we give those workers a rise and the companies rattle their jewelry and threaten to do one they will go to Germany and France and see just how much those workers earn. We are ten years behind them. Those companies will re-think when they see those end of the months payments in Europe. Of course they are happy paying us when Germany pay a minimum wage of 1,500 Euro. http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/en/web/products-datasets/-/EARN_MW_CUR Thats £1300 a month. Now with strong management and strong unions they have figured that out in Germany. Just think that extra money now flooding into the UK market from people working with a decent wage and buying gear. Now thats euros but a tenner is a tenner, well £10*37hours per week*4 weeks in a months is £1480 not much more than the German wage. Where do they move when they know the wage is the same there? Is it worth the move when corporate tax and wage is the same?
I know you are a remainer and that question has already seen the horse bolt. The tories let it bolt when Dave shat himself when Nige shouted at him. However, we are in that basket now and if the EU see us as happy to compromise on such things as the tax it is possible we can see that the financial market could keep moore of its assets here. Clearly it not a given but you have to thank the tories for putting in that basket.
It is indeed uncertain times but acting like a pissed prick at a funeral (not you, this government) and having seen the destructive and divisive ways of this tory government we will do much better with someone who understand listening is as important as talking and certainly better than acting the jerk as Boris, Gove and the rest of the clowns on the good ship UK that May runs and has us on full speed into an iceberg.
 
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I'm still awaiting Ken's reply as to whether he thinks raising corporation tax to 27% is a great idea, given where we are re Brexit. To help him, I thought it might be useful to remind him of what he was saying pre and post the Brexit vote. For example:

Simple that one. Never vote tory in the first place.
 
Now that May and the Tories are having a significantly "weak and unstable" wobble and Labour are rapidly cutting back what had looked an unassailable lead, do we realistically think Labour can go all the way and win the damn thing? I do hope so.

(A bit like 2011-12 when the good guys came back from the dead to snatch the title)
 
That's not true:

11r6vf7.jpg


And look at the trend. Non-EU migration is on its way down and EU migration was going through the roof.

If you're gonna state things, then get it right mate and save me going and looking it up.

Fuck me it shot up between 1997 and 2010 what Happened there then.
 
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