General Election June 8th

[CitizenTID]

So Bamber are you saying none of those could possibly vote out of self interest?

What about those on £7 £8 an hour knowing the living wage will be a tenner. None of these could possibly vote for labour out of self interest?
So will you concede a very simple point, slink off/not reply or continue to state that no labour voters do so out of self interest.

My guess would be slink off/not reply

I didn't "state," I made a generalised comment. Once. Do you take everything so literal?

Some of the points you made are more about infrastructure than self-interest also.

 

[hilts]

I didn't "state," I made a generalised comment. Once. Do you take everything so literal?

Some of the points you made are more about infrastructure than self-interest.

Haha you're sticking to it bloody hell. As a generous bloke I will give you some advice to stop yourself from getting into this kind of embarrassing pickle in future.

Read posts with a bit more care
Try to comprehend them better
If you fuck it up anyhow just accept it and say so no one gives a fuck, we have all done it

Also if you are making a generalised statement try using the phrase in general

You are very welcome

 

[SWP's back]

Yes but thats a significant drop on ours and I was talking about income tax not corporation.

Ireland have done well, I imagine they can support that due to a small population.

Imagine the drop against 26/27%.

And they speak English.

And they are in the single market. It's why raising corporation tax would be suicide for a British government. What incentive would their be to stay when you can open an office in Dublin, call it your head office and hey presto, you half your tax liability.

It's HMRC and thus the people of the UK that are then fucked.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

I'm sure this has already been asked but why are these companies not already in Ireland ?

 

[Blue Mooner]

Ah, the boy is back from my little ban-ette. Apparently I've been too insulting and here was me thinking I was holding back. You should have heard what I REALLY think ;-)

Anyway, there's a number of things I'd like to reply to but let me start with this:



1. The reason it's the "usual blame", is because it was indeed their fault and it's appropriate to blame those who's fault it is. Labour inherited from the Conservatives an economy in good shape, with a budget surplus. But with their usual tax and spend and then more tax because the tax didn't raise as much as they hoped... they managed to run up a big fat deficit BEFORE the crash of 2007. Got that? I'll say it again: They managed to return the economy to the toilet BEFORE the crash of 2007.

Given they presided over a period of world-wide prosperity and growth, this was quite a feat, even by Labour standards. Admittedly it took much longer than it usually takes them to fuck up the economy, but that's because Blair was "Labour-light". Nevertheless, by the end, his mucker the good old glass-eye wobble-chin had raided every single tax pot he could imagine and some. He'd complete run out of pots to pinch from. Tax on insurance, tax on air travel, tax on god knows what.

The most insidious of these was his stealth tax on pensions. In 1997, your average £200/m pension would yield a return of about £250,000 after 20 years. After Gordon's gift to us all, those same investments were yielding about £150,000 in 2007. Thanks Gordy. A hundred grand out of pensioners' pockets in one nasty little stealth tax.

2. Good Lord. Labour preside over the deregulation of the banks, and it's the Tories' fault for not opposing them? Priceless, absolutely priceless.

3. Growth has been decent for years, as SWP has been pointing out. The Tories inherited a crock of shit (remember the "we've spent it all" note?) but with necessary but painful cuts (and YES, they have been painful) and careful management of the economy, they have managed to get things back on track. They've been back on track for 5 or 6 years now, steadily reducing the deficit whilst at the same time being very aware how much the cuts are hurting and therefore unable to cut as much as is perhaps really needed. That's why we still have a small deficit.

4. How's the debt mountain? Answer, it's growing nicely thanks??? But you know what it was growing by £180bn a year when Labour gave the Tories the hospital pass. They've managed to slow the supertanker and got it down to less than a quarter of that. Not bad. No, not perfect, but actually running a country is hard, as Blair and Brown so ably demonstrated by their managing to fuck it right up.

It is quite funny to hear Labour supporters ask how the debt mountain is, whilst completely ignoring the fact that THEY caused it. A bit like driving at 100 miles an hour down the wrong road for 10 minutes, then handing of the wheel to your mate and criticising him for not stopping soon enough, and having gone 100 yards further? You could not make it up.

5. As I say, running a country is hard. When you are handed from Labour massive debt, high taxes, a huge deficit and slow growth, what the fuck are you supposed to do? Raise taxes even further - the very thing that ruined the economy in the first place? Well obviously you have to be a bit careful about that, don't you. You can't go slapping huge great big tax rises around because it would crash the economy completely. How about borrow EVEN more? Again, very stupid as that would damage our credit rating, push up interest rates, push up the cost of servicing our debt, make everyone worse off and make the deficit even worse. So that's a no then.

So where was all the extra money to come from, to spend on all the things Labour demand the Tories spend it on? The cupboard was bare!

Austerity was an unfortunate necessity ("needless austerity" my ARSE) and it was always going to be hard. People actually understood that, which is why Cameron got in in the first place. They also understood it when he got reelected in 2015. No-one likes foodbanks of course, but contrary to what some people on here seem to think, it's just not possible to spend more money on everything. Doing that is the sure way to return to recession, job losses, unemployment and MORE food banks.

Absolutely spot on Chippy. There are people in the country who actually understand the reason the Tories make the tough decisions they do. To suggest that Tories have this heart of stone who actively look to put people in poverty, or deliberately look to ruin the NHS is preposterous in the extreme.

We (tories) just have a fundamentally different view on how you make people's lives and the country better. These socialists seem to want to give their lives over to some all powerful, all seeing government and if anyone happens to live in poverty that has to be the government's fault. What about free will, what about perhaps not injecting yourself with heroin or not gambling or ending up in prison. There are a myriad of reasons why some people may end up on the streets and it might have absolutely nothing to do with govt policy.

My parents had next to nothing growing up but they weren't living in poverty because they possesed decent standards and principles. They had a council house, but their parents looked after it. They didnt drink to excess regularly, smoke or do drugs. The money they did have, went on the right things and they will tell you they had a happy childhood and upbringing despite not having a proverbial pot to p*ss in.

In the main, in the UK, we don't really know the meaning of the word poverty. I remember an African chap, from I think Sierra Leone, ringing up 5 live and saying that Brits don't know true poverty - that is the nearest clean water being 5 miles away, going with out proper food for days on end. Most of the people I see living in poverty have in my opinion impoverished themselves by sh*t lifestyle choices. Poor, yes but having to live In poverty, I don't think so.

 

[Blue Mooner]

I'm sure this has already been asked but why are these companies not already in Ireland ?

Many of them already are, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Vmware, Apple, Yahoo

You can see more here https://www.quora.com/Which-major-companies-have-their-European-headquarters-in-Ireland

 

[Len Rum]

Ah, the boy is back from my little ban-ette. Apparently I've been too insulting and here was me thinking I was holding back. You should have heard what I REALLY think ;-)

Anyway, there's a number of things I'd like to reply to but let me start with this:



1. The reason it's the "usual blame", is because it was indeed their fault and it's appropriate to blame those who's fault it is. Labour inherited from the Conservatives an economy in good shape, with a budget surplus. But with their usual tax and spend and then more tax because the tax didn't raise as much as they hoped... they managed to run up a big fat deficit BEFORE the crash of 2007. Got that? I'll say it again: They managed to return the economy to the toilet BEFORE the crash of 2007.

Given they presided over a period of world-wide prosperity and growth, this was quite a feat, even by Labour standards. Admittedly it took much longer than it usually takes them to fuck up the economy, but that's because Blair was "Labour-light". Nevertheless, by the end, his mucker the good old glass-eye wobble-chin had raided every single tax pot he could imagine and some. He'd complete run out of pots to pinch from. Tax on insurance, tax on air travel, tax on god knows what.

The most insidious of these was his stealth tax on pensions. In 1997, your average £200/m pension would yield a return of about £250,000 after 20 years. After Gordon's gift to us all, those same investments were yielding about £150,000 in 2007. Thanks Gordy. A hundred grand out of pensioners' pockets in one nasty little stealth tax.

2. Good Lord. Labour preside over the deregulation of the banks, and it's the Tories' fault for not opposing them? Priceless, absolutely priceless.

3. Growth has been decent for years, as SWP has been pointing out. The Tories inherited a crock of shit (remember the "we've spent it all" note?) but with necessary but painful cuts (and YES, they have been painful) and careful management of the economy, they have managed to get things back on track. They've been back on track for 5 or 6 years now, steadily reducing the deficit whilst at the same time being very aware how much the cuts are hurting and therefore unable to cut as much as is perhaps really needed. That's why we still have a small deficit.

4. How's the debt mountain? Answer, it's growing nicely thanks??? But you know what it was growing by £180bn a year when Labour gave the Tories the hospital pass. They've managed to slow the supertanker and got it down to less than a quarter of that. Not bad. No, not perfect, but actually running a country is hard, as Blair and Brown so ably demonstrated by their managing to fuck it right up.

It is quite funny to hear Labour supporters ask how the debt mountain is, whilst completely ignoring the fact that THEY caused it. A bit like driving at 100 miles an hour down the wrong road for 10 minutes, then handing of the wheel to your mate and criticising him for not stopping soon enough, and having gone 100 yards further? You could not make it up.

5. As I say, running a country is hard. When you are handed from Labour massive debt, high taxes, a huge deficit and slow growth, what the fuck are you supposed to do? Raise taxes even further - the very thing that ruined the economy in the first place? Well obviously you have to be a bit careful about that, don't you. You can't go slapping huge great big tax rises around because it would crash the economy completely. How about borrow EVEN more? Again, very stupid as that would damage our credit rating, push up interest rates, push up the cost of servicing our debt, make everyone worse off and make the deficit even worse. So that's a no then.

So where was all the extra money to come from, to spend on all the things Labour demand the Tories spend it on? The cupboard was bare!

Austerity was an unfortunate necessity ("needless austerity" my ARSE) and it was always going to be hard. People actually understood that, which is why Cameron got in in the first place. They also understood it when he got reelected in 2015. No-one likes foodbanks of course, but contrary to what some people on here seem to think, it's just not possible to spend more money on everything. Doing that is the sure way to return to recession, job losses, unemployment and MORE food banks.

Basically a load of bollox.
Tories inherited an economy from Labour.
They assessed it.
They said they would eliminate the deficit by 2015.
They failed.
They crashed the economy in 2012.
Deficit elimination has now been put back to 2025 i.e.mañana.By then the total debt will be at least two trillion and will be a structural problem for the UK. If interest rates we will really be in the shit regarding repayment.
The Tories through their unnecessary referendum ( to solve their internal party problems) have caused an existential threat to the British economy, just at the same time our economy has become the worst of the advanced nations.
Same old Tories.
Nuff said.

 

[Hamann Pineapple]

Many of them already are, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, Vmware, Apple, Yahoo

You can sees more here https://www.quora.com/Which-major-companies-have-their-European-headquarters-in-Ireland

I'm not talking about the ones that are already there, I'm talking about the ones we are supposedly ripping off. Ireland CT is the lowest why are all companies not based there ? There must be a reason.

 

[worsleyweb]

Basically a load of bollox.
Tories inherited an economy from Labour.
They assessed it.
They said they would eliminate the deficit by 2015.
They failed.
They crashed the economy in 2012.
Deficit elimination has now been put back to 2025 i.e.mañana.By then the total debt will be at least two trillion and will be a structural problem for the UK. If interest rates we will really be in the shit regarding repayment.
The Tories through their unnecessary referendum ( to solve their internal party problems) have caused an existential threat to the British economy, just at the same time our economy has become the worst of the advanced nations.
Same old Tories.
Nuff said.

When will the defecit cease under labour?

 

[hilts]

Absolutely spot on Chippy. There are people in the country who actually understand the reason the Tories make the tough decisions they do. To suggest that Tories have this heart of stone who actively look to put people in poverty, or deliberately look to ruin the NHS is preposterous in the extreme.

We (tories) just have a fundamentally different view on how you make people's lives and the country better. These socialists seem to want to give their lives over to some all powerful, all seeing government and if anyone happens to live in poverty that has to be the government's fault. What about free will, what about perhaps not injecting yourself with heroin or not gambling or ending up in prison. There are a myriad of reasons why some people may end up on the streets and it might have absolutely nothing to do with govt policy.

My parents had next to nothing growing up but they weren't living in poverty because they possesed decent standards and principles. They had a council house, but their parents looked after it. They didnt drink to excess regularly, smoke or do drugs. The money they did have, went on the right things and they will tell you they had a happy childhood and upbringing despite not having a proverbial pot to p*ss in.

In the main, in the UK, we don't really know the meaning of the word poverty. I remember an African chap, from I think Sierra Leone, ringing up 5 live and saying that Brits don't know true poverty - that is the nearest clean water being 5 miles away, going with out proper food for days on end. Most of the people I see living in poverty have in my opinion impoverished themselves by sh*t lifestyle choices. Poor, yes but having to live In poverty, I don't think so.

Some numpty came up with relative poverty, now Balaclava man and his envy crew can claim 4 million kids are in poverty when they aint.