George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[hcblue95]

A paid up member lol

A paid up member of who exactly?

He gets the magazine every month.

 

[urban genie]

Loved that rant and agree with it as do many lefties who despair at the twitter generation.

I mean I cannot even call fat cunts or scrawny twats that anymore ;-)

And that video by actors last night taking the blame for racism was eye rollingly pathetic.

 

[BobKowalski]

20+ deaths, thousands injured, small business owners bankrupt, city’s trashed and burnt, families divided, vitriol in the media and on social media. All for a flag?

The only positive change I intend to push for is to treat those who I come into contact with whether family, friend, work colleague or stranger with the respect they deserve as I would want to be treated, the world would be such a better place if everyone tried to influence their own inner circles rather than the hopeless task of the world trying to change the world.

Actually it was because of the murder of George Floyd by the police. The clue is in the thread title.

 

[urban genie]

My cousin (embarrassingly) is a paid up member and was in attendance.

Do you have a link to the sign up page? As various searches find nothing.

Or is it on the dark web?

 

[Rascal]

Of course it was, any excuse for violence and they turn up, just like they will be involved on Saturday. They're fucking shitbags portraying themselves as the good guys, yet being the biggest fascits of them all.

Fascists should at least be able to spell.

I do love this Antifa are the new fascists line, it shows a distinct lack of understanding of what fascism actually is. Generally, although not always the ANTIFA lads are left wing and working class, the line that ANTIFA are middle class liberal students is laughable, they are protestors, yes, but ANTIFA, behave yourself.

You are using Trumpian rhetoric that just shows ignorance of the truth.

I could explain the ideological differences if you wish between ANTIFA and real fascists

 

[urban genie]

Its not 'the left' and it's clearly not 'liberals' either as they are fairly illiberal and prescriptive. We need a new word.

Knobs? Clowns? Helmets? Students? Giddy cunts?

 

[Blue Maverick]

Kind of ironic that a thread about a murdered black man is now full of people whining they are oppressed because Netflix has pulled Little Britain and the BBC dropped an episode of Fawlty Towers because a character used racist language.

No its not its the fact that what the hell has a programme from 15 years ago got to do with it, comedy is invariably taking the piss out of someone or something otherwise you end up with shit like Miranda, if people dont like it dont watch it but dont take other peoples ability away to do so if they wish.

 

[urban genie]

No its not its the fact that what the hell has a programme from 15 years ago got to do with it, comedy is invariably taking the piss out of someone or something otherwise you end up with shit like Miranda, if people dont like it dont watch it but dont take other peoples ability away to do so if they wish.

At least we still have father ted

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

Do you have a link to the sign up page? As various searches find nothing.

Or is it on the dark web?

god knows. He’s a middle class rich kid currently at uni that couldn’t fight sleep. A bit like Rascal but young enough to not know better.

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

Loved that rant and agree with it as do many lefties who despair at the twitter generation.

I mean I cannot even call fat cunts or scrawny twats that anymore ;-)

And that video by actors last night taking the blame for racism was eye rollingly pathetic.

The line that hit home for me was that as a society we used to stand up to oppression, now we actively seek it out often where it doesn’t exist.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Where you happy when the statue of Saddam was toppled?

Churchill wasn't "probably" racist, he was racist and he had eugenicist leanings, as well as surprisingly being known for outbursts of anti-semitism. The problem is the way history is taught in this country we only learn about the good bits of Churchill, which skews historical context. We teach so much nonsense about our history it makes it sound at times that Churchill defeated fascism on his own with a water pistol. All we do is romance about our past and wallow in the ridiculousness of Empire and Imperialism, this leads to the sort of stupidity we see today. If we had all been taught about Churchill warts and all, would there be a problem? no I don't think so, because we would have the historical context and the cult of Churchillian defiance would not exist. We would look on him as a great man albeit a flawed great man, as most men are. He was the right man at the time does that excuse the rest of what he was, no I don't think so. I wouldn't remove his statue but I would educate people about the real Churchill not the one who just made famous speeches, but the one who also made huge mistakes and was a bit of a ****.

and if it wasnt for him you wouldnt be writing this, all people are cunts in one form or another, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist but go on TV and try and say that see how long you last.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Bang on, bang fucking on.

 

[Blue Maverick]

Excuse me have you ever seen the monocled mutineer on telly since it's first broadcast?

It was critically aclaimed and praised yet a backlash from tory mlMPs and right wing press had it mothballed and it has not seen the light of day again.

Also stop catagorising who is tearing down statues, I am left and far to it but I don't want churchills, nelson, gandhis statues removed or destroyed for the sake of it and I don't know any left wingers that do in my social circle.
I would like proper debate around what we imortalise and honour, but randomly tearing down statues nah.


Unless it is cromwells, that **** can fuck off ;-)


Lastly no one is erasing history, it will still exist and be available to all.

for now it does mate, but then they will try re writing it, you know like how George Floyd was such a decent human being, did he deserve to die, no absolutely not, but he was no saint, bit like when little Johnnie dies in a police car chase, they are all rascals, jack the lad, no they arent they are scumbags who rolled the dice.

 

[BigOscar]

Starting to become very apparent how easily the media can spin something incontestable into something ridiculous by highlighting the views of the most extreme and packaging it together with the valid, irrefutable points. So we've gone from talking about how police brutality and racism wrong, to discussing how taking the League of Gentlemen off streaming sites is ridiculous. It's a pretty common tactic and is clearly very effective, you no longer have to debate the point you know you can't win and instead pick a fight that you know you can and link them to undermine the initial protest.

Sadly, some on the left are far too thick to realise they are being played like this and continue to rage against utterly stupid things. Thus, nothing changes except everyone on both sides is angrier and more divided

 

[RadcliffeRick]

They desteoyed palmyra because iconography is not permitted, same as when cromwell and the roundheads smashed up catholic churches and destroyed staues, windows and altars.


Removing (not destroying ) statues that no longer serve a valid function and placing them in museums as has been suggested in the main is not the same.

ISIS would have no statues allowed and all destroyed, this present movement would like ones celebrating a dark past to be removed.

I agree with some going and disagree about others, but I welcome the debate and feflection about our past and how we decide to remember it.

I would suggest that putting a statue in the river is destroying it. The fact that they have taken it upon themselves to be the guardians of everything correct sits very uneasy. Who has given, for example, a group of people with no mandate that has decided that we should all be offended by something therefore it must be removed/destroyed.
Your point about reflection on our past is a valid one, there should be a debate on how we remember it. The current situation where a mob can decide that because they are offended by something it makes it right to remove it without any debate or discussion.
I have said before in this thread, where are the limits? I guess everyone of influence and power has some skeletons in the closet that offends someone somewhere. Are we going to remove every statue, name, reference from our lives?

 

[Rascal]

and if it wasnt for him you wouldnt be writing this, all people are cunts in one form or another, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist but go on TV and try and say that see how long you last.

See this is the problem, British exceptionalism and the myths we create around our history and historical figures.

Churchill didn't defeat fascism on his own, Dunkirk wasn't a great victory, D-Day wasn't the major turning point of the war, but we are taught this through a prism of exceptionalism and it leads to myth. Myth like the Dunkirk spirit, that's trollied out whenever the nation faces tough times, Churchillian resolve whenever times are tough. If we were taught history and critical thinking with honesty attached there would be no call for removal of statues as people would be able to put them into historical context, but we don't, we teach exceptionalism and what we seeing now is a fight back against that exceptionalism simply because the people have never been taught properly.

The comparison with Mandela is false equivalence, it is a common logical fallacy to compare history from another context with ours. But we cant look at history from another country through our exceptionalist prism, as that simply does not work nor is it relevant without knowing the full historical context of what happened and why. I don't know the full context, can you say you do?

 

[BlueHammer85]

Statues boarded up in London over night.
What a very sad sight, this country is finished.

it’s to prevent the ‘football lads alliance’ turning up to prevent these monuments and basically looking for a fight.

 

[Blue Maverick]

See this is the problem, British exceptionalism and the myths we create around our history and historical figures.

Churchill didn't defeat fascism on his own, Dunkirk wasn't a great victory, D-Day wasn't the major turning point of the war, but we are taught this through a prism of exceptionalism and it leads to myth. Myth like the Dunkirk spirit, that's trollied out whenever the nation faces tough times, Churchillian resolve whenever times are tough. If we were taught history and critical thinking with honesty attached there would be no call for removal of statues as people would be able to put them into historical context, but we don't, we teach exceptionalism and what we seeing now is a fight back against that exceptionalism simply because the people have never been taught properly.

The comparison with Mandela is false equivalence, it is a common logical fallacy to compare history from another context with ours. But we cant look at history from another country through our exceptionalist prism, as that simply does not work nor is it relevant without knowing the full historical context of what happened and why. I don't know the full context, can you say you do?

What was the turning point in the war, the americans entering it? He was a great leader that galavanised a nation to take no shit against overwhelming odds, if it wasnt for him we would have probably sued for peace then Hitler wouldve invaded us later, you know like he did with Russia.

 

[Ban-jani]

Isn’t demanding the abolition of the BBC an act of cultural vandalism given all they have done is remove an episode of Fawlty Towers? They have censored the ‘n’ word out of an episode before this.

I still get the impression of double standards because calling for the abolition of a public service institution that is admired around the world over a comedy episode made nearly 50 years ago is kind of in the same ballpark as daubing paint on Churchill’s statue.

I’m not demanding it though am I, certainly not with the threat of violence?

Who have I demanded it to?

I just said I think it’s time it should go.

 

[brooklandsblue2.0]

See this is the problem, British exceptionalism and the myths we create around our history and historical figures.

Churchill didn't defeat fascism on his own, Dunkirk wasn't a great victory, D-Day wasn't the major turning point of the war, but we are taught this through a prism of exceptionalism and it leads to myth. Myth like the Dunkirk spirit, that's trollied out whenever the nation faces tough times, Churchillian resolve whenever times are tough. If we were taught history and critical thinking with honesty attached there would be no call for removal of statues as people would be able to put them into historical context, but we don't, we teach exceptionalism and what we seeing now is a fight back against that exceptionalism simply because the people have never been taught properly.

The comparison with Mandela is false equivalence, it is a common logical fallacy to compare history from another context with ours. But we cant look at history from another country through our exceptionalist prism, as that simply does not work nor is it relevant without knowing the full historical context of what happened and why. I don't know the full context, can you say you do?

Imagine living with this much self loathing...What a burden.