George Floyd murder / Derek Chauvin guilty of murder

[Silva_Spell]

Clown One decided to use a bigger demographic argument to make a point only to tell himself he doesn't know much about the subject later in the thread.

Clown Two points out that spraying mace at the target (let's use the above incident he chose) puts his partner in danger, you know, the one that tasered a guy at distance from the other side of the car.

Laurel and Hardy are alive and well...

Sgt. Bigga is on the case lol

 

[Vic]

Yes it is.

But I sense and hope that you recognize that that's a patently inadequate use of statistics. It's often a disingenuous way those who want to forment discord present information.

Let me use an example to explain:

So 80% of players currently in the NBA are black. Again like you very well know, black people are only 13% of the population of the U.S.

Now, suppose someone wanted to determine if blacks are being discriminated against by refs during NBA games and then they throw out the stat that 81% of all fouls in the NBA are called against someone black even though blacks represent only 13% of the American population This would clearly be an excessive sign of discrimination against Blacks who are only 13% of the population, yet getting called for fouls 81% of the time...


In this example it's obvious to anyone what the error is; the populations being sampled is different From the base population being used for determining discrimination. Blacks being 13% of the US population is irrelevant if 80% of the players who could be called for a foul are black.

Those who often peddle the stat you just used are, knowingly or not, exhibiting the same error as the above. I.e. comparing the results of different populations. A) population of blacks in NBA vs B) population of blacks in the U.S

In your example, The population you are looking for are black interactions with cops vs White interactions with cops.

As a % of interactions with cops, more with whites get shot than blacks. 4 of every 100000 for whites vs 3 of every 100000 interactions for blacks. Again the relevant population here is the population that interacts with the police not the population percentages of the different groups in the country at large .


As @RabidCity has pointed out, about 50% of all murders victims ( and their perpetrators) in America are black yearly. Now would you conclude that there is discrimination against black people if 50% of those arrested for killing others were black? Would you say, well black people self discriminatory as they are only 13% of the population but yet 50% if those killed by homicides?

No one would do that, yet that's what those stats are purposely presenting.

Again, I implore you, examine the facts, review the peer reviewed studies on the topic, and draw your own conclusions.

The facts simply has never bore out the claims often being peddled.

I was aware of the argument that the stat is skewed because crime is more prevalent in the black community. But maybe that derives from institutional racism (and social policies) keeping black communities poor, but the obvious question about "interactions" is what prompts each interaction.

What counts as interaction? Is an incident where police throw a bottle of water to a minor with an automatic rifle an "interaction"? Is not doing anything when he approaches police with hands raised but repeatedly putting his hand to his gun an "interaction"? How many interactions with black people are motivated by prejudice rather than probable cause? Is the apparent higher number of whites shot per interaction explained by the white people shot being statistically more likely to be armed?

I don't really know the answers but if you're trying to maintain that the police are free of prejudice, you'd need a lot more evidence. Or give us a link to peer-reviewed studies.

The NBA analogy is pretty useless anyway. For "per interaction" you need to feed in "per inch of height" as a modifier.

 

[Bigga]

It seems like Silva Clown think all cops stand in a straight line when it comes to driver interaction (love the skilled art drawing, by the way).

Here's me thinking it was habit to stand in an angled position when challenging the driver.

I'm surprised more cops don't shoot each other when they shoot drivers...

 

[SWP's back]

It seems like Silva Clown think all cops stand in a straight line when it comes to driver interaction (love the skilled art drawing, by the way).

Here's me thinking it was habit to stand in an angled position when challenging the driver.

I'm surprised more cops don't shoot each other when they shoot drivers...

Also worth noting that the cop missed with his tazer and the barbs were found in the footwell. Whole situation could have been avoided had he actually managed to hit the guy from two feet.

 

[Dax777]

I was aware of the argument that the stat is skewed because crime is more prevalent in the black community. But maybe that derives from institutional racism (and social policies) keeping black communities poor, but the obvious question about "interactions" is what prompts each interaction.

Again, mentions of institutional racism and social policies causing poverty are simply emotional fillers. Since that is not in the purview of a police Officer's action as it relates to different races (i.e. the object of this discussion). Similarly, neither are discussions about the proliferation of guns or Americas idiotic 2A. These claims often are brought up but have no actual value other than attempting to prime the emotion if the receiver.

That said, we can have separate discussion about Institutional Racism and Social Policies. Which ones are good, bad and unsupported by evidence.

As to this topic, we can comfortably say without prejudice, that crime skews higher towards poverty and inner cities, and thus in America more towards blacks than White. The stat that about 50% of all murder victims are black should crystalize that in any unbiased mind.

In America, we are the ones getting killed. Period!

What counts as interaction? Is an incident where police throw a bottle of water to a minor with an automatic rifle an "interaction"? Is not doing anything when he approaches police with hands raised but repeatedly putting his hand to his gun an "interaction"? How many interactions with black people are motivated by prejudice rather than probable cause? Is the apparent higher number of whites shot per interaction explained by the white people shot being statistically more likely to be armed?

Yes, the throwing water at the armed shooter would count as an interaction. There are 10 million interactions a year, anecdotal evidence of cops throwing water to Militia men they had informally deputized during a riot isn't indicative of interactions generally. I know you know this!

I am sure lots of police interactions with black people are motivated by prejudice, but the studies I've seen do not support a higher % of guns amongst white shot victims over black ones.

Again, the numbers on who is getting killed are close. They are not statistically significant. That whites are higher could simply be happenstance. But they are. And protest being fueled by claims of black people being killed (i.e targeted for that purpose by police) simply doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

I don't really know the answers but if you're trying to maintain that the police are free of prejudice, you'd need a lot more evidence. Or give us a link to peer-reviewed studies.

Why would I maintain police are free of prejudice? Of course they aren't. They are not automatons. They are humans. And they respond to information. And that information creates bias. If I am a cop and I know 2% of the population creates abour 50% of the homicide, I am likely to show higher scrutiny towards those in that population. Especially if I encounter them in the Neighborhoods where those crimes mostly occur.

Here are some facts. Young black males, ages 15-35 commit about 45-50 percent of all murders. And a majority of those murders take place in 2% of all precincts in America.

So a cop working in South Side Chicago, East New York, South West Detroit to name a few specific precincts in those 2% of precincts I earlier mentioned, to say you won't be prejudicial, is to say you are not human.

Oh by the way, a very high proportion of the cops I'm talking about here are themselves, minorities.

The NBA analogy is pretty useless anyway. For "per interaction" you need to feed in "per inch of height" as a modifier.

The point of the analogy was simply to show how using the percentages of different populations is a falacious way to find bias. The point was about the sleight of hand in changing the population being measured in other to find bias.

 

[Silva_Spell]

It seems like Silva Clown think all cops stand in a straight line when it comes to driver interaction (love the skilled art drawing, by the way).

Here's me thinking it was habit to stand in an angled position when challenging the driver.

I'm surprised more cops don't shoot each other when they shoot drivers...

There aren't many angles available when you're working with a window and mist

If bullets turned into a lethal mist I think we'd all be surprised

You call people clowns but I can just picture the slapstick comedy gold if you were in charge of policing tactics

 

[Bigga]

Bullets flying into 'lethal mists' now!!

Brilliant!!

LOL!!

 

[Silva_Spell]

Also worth noting that the cop missed with his tazer and the barbs were found in the footwell. Whole situation could have been avoided had he actually managed to hit the guy from two feet.

He pulled them out

 

[Silva_Spell]

Bullets flying into 'lethal mists' now!!

Brilliant!!

LOL!!

No surprise that you miss the point

 

[SWP's back]

He pulled them out

“McAllister testified that he saw $2,400 in cash and a casino payout receipt in the passenger seat of Ware’s Chevrolet Cobalt and a Taser barb on the floor mat on the driver’s side. Ware’s wallet was outside the car, McAllister said. Court documents state that a Taser deployment was unsuccessful.”

Weird, thought you’d blocked me twice? Or is it something you just announce like a moronic teenager thinking anyone gives a fuck?