Goals scored this season

LoveCity said:
Just defend narrowly against us and you've already got half the job done. The other half involves hard work, pressing, and some luck. We quite simply struggle against teams that defend like that because of no width and a complete lack of through balls that we used to get from Silva that even he is struggling to pick out now. We spend a big % of the 90 minutes passing it around and patiently waiting for that one opening when more direct teams are bombing the ball in and creating them. I'm not saying a direct style is superior, Barcelona have shown otherwise, but to play like we do you need to do it the right way or it can be incredibly frustrating. Mancini will probably put Maicon in the team as soon as he gets back to try and bring back the danger the full-backs once posed.


Pretty much sums it up for me. Only other thing is transition of play, we are soooo slow it's painful. I though the Arsenal home game starkly contrasted the different transitional speeds of the sides, theirs far quicker than ours.
 
coulsonblue said:
Beanie The Wonder Horse said:
coulsonblue said:
you seem to be suggesting that a cross is somehow not open play. very odd.

'On the break' is also not classed as open play apparently. Very odder.

ah yes i missed that. ha

D'oh!! I should have known that you two bright sparks would be on here!
What I'm actually saying is that we score very few goals from the 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' style that we use as the basis for our approach to winning matches. Of course corners and on the break goals are open play (you really caught me out there huh?!) but they're just not the kind of goals we set-up to score - and so I suggested our set-up/approach isn't working.
(Sorry for not making that distinction clearer for you, it was just to save typing out 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' every time.
 
Sometimes United are facing the same deep defending tactics we are. But you dont see Carrick and Scholes passing the ball slowly to each other at that point when they need a win.
Against WHU it was painful from the 75. minute to see Nasri-Yaya passing to each other, slowly, slow turn, back to Yaya, slow pass out wide, back to Nasri.
Yeah I understand we were looking for a mistake by WHU but not putting enough pressure on them is a huge mistake.


Pace is huge in this league, a huge factor. Our average build is is so slow. You dont see this slow build up play at other top teams in Europe. But we are getting punished for it in Europe.

United's whole passing, attacking play is about pace as well. You dont really see them turning back, pass it back regularly.

When Nasri, Clichy, Barry facing some trouble, like pressing from opponent, they turn back 99% of the time. Even pass it back. And it starts again.

Pretty sure it is coming from Mancini. Thats what he asks from them.

No wide options another huge factor. Mancini also doesnt like wingers. No pace on the wings.
Maybe Clichy or Zabba comes up sometimes but first he faces a midfielder/winger then a fullback. If they still have the ball they are not good at crossing.

Kolarov is good at crossing but he rarely plays because his weak point is the defending. No coicidence Clichy is startint now every match nearly.

Oponents know this as well. They planning for these things. They have to organize themselves to the middle, where Yaya, Nasri, Silva trio is playing and on top of that Tevez dropping deep.

They take each others place most of the times while opponents fullbacks have more than enough energy to help out for the central defenders for the def. midfielders. Because they face no opponent to mark.

Even if they do they have time to reorganize as we are building attacks in the slow way.

Pace would be very important for us but it is not just about fast players.

Wehave very fast players but our tactics are far from getting the best out of our fast players. Agüero, Balotelli, Nasri are very fast players.Their real pace is nowhere near used enough they getting the ball to their feet or even they are stopping/standing when they get it.

We dont move enough, many times Yaya has the ball looking for a pass, everybody is standing. They are waiting the ball. not running enough to move opponents, open channels. Slow, standing, not enough movement, no wings, no pace.

I hoped some improvement in these elements this year so far it only got worse as opponents can plan for this even more, even easier. They know us even more, our strengths, our weaknesses.
It was enough last year against a very weak United only on level points tho. We were beating every team at least once, many of them twice. This year they raise their game a little bit more as well. (Of course they do.)

Mancini has a certain way he likes the team to set up, with a certain build up play, I'm not sure it is good enough.
We struggle with this even against opponents who arent putting 10 men behind the ball.

Also the form of our players is worrying. No one is in his top class form since August. Maybe only Tevez who gives everything so far. We saw Dzeko, Balo, Agüero, Silva, Nasri, Yaya, Barry playing lot better than now.

New signings had about zero effect so far. Ok Nastasic is alright, great prspect. But Rodwell when played he always made a huge mistake. We conceded about 3 goals because of him. Soton, Pool and Dortmund matches come to my mind...

So pace, form, tactics all have a role why we dont score as many goals overall and from open play situations this year.
For United their form (RVP), their pace is better as well. Also they are more easily beaten in midfield and defence but who will outscore them when RVP hits the form like this?
They easily could draw all of their 3 CL matches they won all 3.
 
Great reply, cheers!

Damanino said:
When Nasri, Clichy, Barry facing some trouble, like pressing from opponent, they turn back 99% of the time. Even pass it back. And it starts again.
We dont move enough, many times Yaya has the ball looking for a pass, everybody is standing. They are waiting the ball. not running enough to move opponents, open channels. Slow, standing, not enough movement, no wings, no pace.
Exactly. If we are going to play this style (a lá Barca) then when the opposition have committed players, when they are not set in their deep positions, that is precisely when we need to tear through them rather than start again!

Damanino said:
No wide options another huge factor. Mancini also doesnt like wingers. No pace on the wings.
Maybe Clichy or Zabba comes up sometimes but first he faces a midfielder/winger then a fullback. If they still have the ball they are not good at crossing.
Kolarov is good at crossing...
Fair point when comparing us to united's success but width isn't just about crossing. Dani Alves isn't constantly whipping them in onto Messi 's head and they certainly do well without out and out wingers, but what they do is overlap and 'get in behind'. If we're finding that teams are condensing into the centre then this could combat that - via 352 perhaps... But not practised against big teams in important games when the players clearly aren't comfortable with it - even if Bob says they should be.

Damanino said:
Mancini has a certain way he likes the team to set up, with a certain build up play, I'm not sure it is good enough.
We struggle with this even against opponents who arent putting 10 men behind the ball.
It is a style that can be successful (Barca) so it just needs other elements adding to it I suppose.


My other pet peeve of the moment is the question about why Dzeko is better as an impact sub than from the start. Surely this is so obvious. From the start we aren't playing high balls towards him, in the 85th minute we are, making these questions almost total rubbish.
 
dajd1984 said:
My other pet peeve of the moment is the question about why Dzeko is better as an impact sub than from the start. Surely this is so obvious. From the start we aren't playing high balls towards him, in the 85th minute we are, making these questions almost total rubbish.

What pissed me off yesterday, is that in a front 3 of Tevez, Dzeko and Balotelli, Dzeko was always the man playing wide and running the channels whilst Mario hung around the box.

I love Dzeko but he's shit at that, and Mario's finishing yesterday was woeful. Why Dzeko wasn't staying central I have no idea.
 
dajd1984 said:
coulsonblue said:
Beanie The Wonder Horse said:
'On the break' is also not classed as open play apparently. Very odder.

ah yes i missed that. ha

D'oh!! I should have known that you two bright sparks would be on here!
What I'm actually saying is that we score very few goals from the 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' style that we use as the basis for our approach to winning matches. Of course corners and on the break goals are open play (you really caught me out there huh?!) but they're just not the kind of goals we set-up to score - and so I suggested our set-up/approach isn't working.
(Sorry for not making that distinction clearer for you, it was just to save typing out 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' every time.

say that then
 
coulsonblue said:
dajd1984 said:
coulsonblue said:
ah yes i missed that. ha

D'oh!! I should have known that you two bright sparks would be on here!
What I'm actually saying is that we score very few goals from the 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' style that we use as the basis for our approach to winning matches. Of course corners and on the break goals are open play (you really caught me out there huh?!) but they're just not the kind of goals we set-up to score - and so I suggested our set-up/approach isn't working.
(Sorry for not making that distinction clearer for you, it was just to save typing out 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' every time.

say that then

I think you'll find that I pretty much did...
dajd1984 said:
'...how successful is our regular normal approach? If we seek to win games through plying from the back, with creative players in the middle, then how come so few of our goals are coming from this method...'
...every other reply seemed to understand.
We got there in the end anyway!
 
dajd1984 said:
coulsonblue said:
dajd1984 said:
D'oh!! I should have known that you two bright sparks would be on here!
What I'm actually saying is that we score very few goals from the 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' style that we use as the basis for our approach to winning matches. Of course corners and on the break goals are open play (you really caught me out there huh?!) but they're just not the kind of goals we set-up to score - and so I suggested our set-up/approach isn't working.
(Sorry for not making that distinction clearer for you, it was just to save typing out 'passing it around from the back to the front waiting for an opening or a defence splitting pass' every time.

say that then

I think you'll find that I pretty much did...
dajd1984 said:
'...how successful is our regular normal approach? If we seek to win games through plying from the back, with creative players in the middle, then how come so few of our goals are coming from this method...'
...every other reply seemed to understand.
We got there in the end anyway!

No. You made the error of going through the games and distinguishing them by saying "open play", regardless of what you said before.

Crosses are going to be more successful at times v deep defence as you eventually work the ball wide to stretch defence.

You have to be patient against deep defences, something 90% of fans don't have.<br /><br />-- Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:54 am --<br /><br />
greasedupdeafguy said:
sonnymancity said:
truth is we haven't 'clicked' yet. Its always going to be hard to break down team who set up with ten men defending on the edge of their box. In order to score you need quick, precise, perfect, passing and creativity to slip a player through and score, 'barca style'. We haven't performed this year so far and this passing hasn't happened so we are relying on goals that are created by set pieces, deflections, crosses, breaks and long range strikes. These goals are more down to chance rather than creativity and skill. What is scary is that we are 3rd and unbeaten so what happens when we do 'click' and start scoring great passing goals from open play as well as these goals scored more by 'chance'?

I truly believe teams like united find it easy to win games because team dont park the bus against them. They look at united's team sheet and think they always have a 'chance' against them so they come out and attack then leave space for united's players.
what rubbish

ye i know. Teams don't have a go at united, particularly at OT
 

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