Henry Nowak murder

Just heard the poor lad’s dad on LBC pleading for this awful crime not to drive more hatred and division.

Meanwhile the likes of Farage and his army of pissed up gammon fuckwits are out setting a city on fire and having another day out on the piss and ultraviolence.

Any excuse to kick off.

The police massively fucked up on this case and rightly deserve to face the inevitable investigation and disciplinary action but I hope they go two footed on these thugs in Southampton.

The dad has got more dignity and humanity in his little finger than all these cunts put together. Heartbreaking listening to the guy.
 
bert38 said:
I concur with everything you say. that's why I mentioned somewhere that the removal of discretion has not helped policing-its trying to produce control of officer behaviour when the job itself is chaotic.

i was a police officer for 25 years, an Inspector for the vast majority-I left on the first day I could because I could no longer deal with 12 hour shift, in particular the long nights that were killing me-and despite my rank I found sat in meetings on day shifts incredibly boring and I no longer wanted to play those games.

And yes, one of the earliest things I learnt was the best way to get a drug dealer, or similar criminal locked up was to get them disqualified from driving-people go to prison for driving whilst disqualified-and its very easy to prove!

But yeah there's been huge change-a lot for the better but much for the worse-its a minefield of being scared to say or do the wrong thing-yet ttp brass can seemingly do pretty much anything without sanction.

I always add the caveat when rambling about policing that over time my experience becomes less relevant-I retired more than 5 years ago-so eventually I'll just be a gibbering wreck in the corner banging on about the good old days..
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On the contrary id say you saw the total shift in policing given you started 30 years ago!

I have no issues with the police, apart from a scrap 35 years ago, ive never been in trouble with the police, so i have no truck with them whatsoever.

But my opinion now is that the police force is pretty hopeless. An opinion echoed by my pal who served his whole career in the police.

When i was a kid, i was frightened of the big burly coppers i saw.

Now i look at some of the drips and think fuck me is that all they can muster up!!

At the risk of digressing, i think the force is fucked up from top to bottom.

Hierarchy that are too political and want to be seen to do the right thing and not upset anyone, and coppers on the ground who are just a bit crap.
Add that together and you end up with officers like the drips in the nowak murder
 
i kne albert davy said:
I appreciate your input even if i may well not agree all the time, are you saying when the lad who was so obviously slipping away said i’ve been stabbed to you 4 times and i can’t breathe 9 times you wouldn’t have looked.
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I can't honestly say-I would like to think I would have asked 'where mate?' instead of 'of course you have'-I mean, that does sound an obvious response-but we are looking at it with perfect hindsight. The officer is making decisions (wrongly) on an established thought process that was flawed..I can imagine that will haunt him for the rest of his life.
 
Bluesince1979 said:
On the contrary id say you saw the total shift in policing given you started 30 years ago!

I have no issues with the police, apart from a scrap 35 years ago, ive never been in trouble with the police, so i have no truck with them whatsoever.

But my opinion now is that the police force is pretty hopeless. An opinion echoed by my pal who served his whole career in the police.

When i was a kid, i was frightened of the big burly coppers i saw.

Now i look at some of the drips and think fuck me is that all they can muster up!!

At the risk of digressing, i think the force is fucked up from top to bottom.

Hierarchy that are too political and want to be seen to do the right thing and not upset anyone, and coppers on the ground who are just a bit crap.
Add that together and you end up with officers like the drips in the nowak murder
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I don't think they are drips-we don't know anything about them in truth; I don't think giving CPR to a young man makes them a drip, on the contrary-it makes them incredibly brave. Its much easier to get off the frontline, avoid conflict, avoid the most stressful, demanding, scrutinised situations, avoid shifts, as many do as quickly as possible-and I don't blame those who do-and of course those other roles can be equally demanding and stressful.

I do take your point on the changing nature of police-but I've banged on about it numerous times-when I joined it was a mix of ages, a mix of experience, in and out of the job. Now, if you are going to erode pay and conditions so much that only kids can afford to join-you end up with the service you describe. Thank God that these kids do join up. The pay is shite for the risks you take, the control it has over your life, the long lasting effects the job will have for the remainder of your life. We don't get so many 'burly' officers because 18-21 year olds aren't typically like that-they aren't being mustered up-its simply a product of supply and demand in a competing marketplace-bugger that if I can get paid as much without the grief somewhere else.
 
bert38 said:
perhaps-and they did after 1-3 minutes..but the Judge even said in his summing up-'people lie to the police when arrested'-I'm not excusing it, I'm trying to explain a thought process, especially if you wrongly assume you are dealing with an intoxicated male who has been gobby.

in that situation would it cross my mind that Henry had been stabbed in the chest? Certainly no quicker than the officers did.
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Coppers on youtube this very week in M/c tipping people upside down looking for a supposed knife...nothing found, no problem, off you pop...its a regular sorta carry-on when stabbing or knife is shouted...unfortunately for the kid they didnt believe him and run out of batteries.
 
ayrshire_blue said:
Can I just make another point on something else, I've got a huge amount of respect for Henry's family and the dignified statement read by his dad. How difficult that must have been to read and it was put across so well.

My heart goes out to them. The killer should never see the light of day again, and nor should his mum for a very long time.
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And his Dad who sat through all the court proceedings made a statement that this is nothing to do with racism.
 
bert38 said:
I can't honestly say-I would like to think I would have asked 'where mate?' instead of 'of course you have'-I mean, that does sound an obvious response-but we are looking at it with perfect hindsight. The officer is making decisions (wrongly) on an established thought process that was flawed..I can imagine that will haunt him for the rest of his life.
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cheers for the reply
 
bert38 said:
I don't think they are drips-we don't know anything about them in truth; I don't think giving CPR to a young man makes them a drip, on the contrary-it makes them incredibly brave. Its much easier to get off the frontline, avoid conflict, avoid the most stressful, demanding, scrutinised situations, avoid shifts, as many do as quickly as possible-and I don't blame those who do-and of course those other roles can be equally demanding and stressful.

I do take your point on the changing nature of police-but I've banged on about it numerous times-when I joined it was a mix of ages, a mix of experience, in and out of the job. Now, if you are going to erode pay and conditions so much that only kids can afford to join-you end up with the service you describe. Thank God that these kids do join up. The pay is shite for the risks you take, the control it has over your life, the long lasting effects the job will have for the remainder of your life. We don't get so many 'burly' officers because 18-21 year olds aren't typically like that-they aren't being mustered up-its simply a product of supply and demand in a competing marketplace-bugger that if I can get paid as much without the grief somewhere else.
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We used to have offices in stretford, they were broken into what felt like weekly.
The alarms would go off, wed drive up in the middle of the night and the police would generally be there already, sat outside

I said once, “are you going in, they might still be there’”

His reply of, “do you know what we get paid? You go in, we’ll wait here”
 
bert38 said:
I don't think they are drips-we don't know anything about them in truth; I don't think giving CPR to a young man makes them a drip, on the contrary-it makes them incredibly brave. Its much easier to get off the frontline, avoid conflict, avoid the most stressful, demanding, scrutinised situations, avoid shifts, as many do as quickly as possible-and I don't blame those who do-and of course those other roles can be equally demanding and stressful.

I do take your point on the changing nature of police-but I've banged on about it numerous times-when I joined it was a mix of ages, a mix of experience, in and out of the job. Now, if you are going to erode pay and conditions so much that only kids can afford to join-you end up with the service you describe. Thank God that these kids do join up. The pay is shite for the risks you take, the control it has over your life, the long lasting effects the job will have for the remainder of your life. We don't get so many 'burly' officers because 18-21 year olds aren't typically like that-they aren't being mustered up-its simply a product of supply and demand in a competing marketplace-bugger that if I can get paid as much without the grief somewhere else.
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Alas CPR it’s pointless when his lungs were full of blood but officer wasn’t to know that, it all happens so quickly. About 30 years ago we were on holiday in Crete the sea was rough but i’m a pretty strong swimmer even more so back then and i saw a guy about 100 yards away in some distress takes a while to work out how much trouble he’s in, i got to him before the life guard and kept him afloat, alas by time we got him to the beach he’d gone despite the CPR we couldn’t fetch him back watching someone pass is awful, to this day i think could i have reacted quicker would it have made a difference and i can see him struggling clear as day.
 
Think this awful incident is part of the legacy of how we analyse and attempt to combat racism in this country.

Instead of viewing it for what it is - a societal problem and an issue with our entire species - we went down the "shame and blame the individual" route. An understandable choice but one that does make it harder to actually confront the issues that lead to racism in the first place.

The police who attended the incident were put in a bad position - caught between a rock and a hard place. One the one hand they've not got all the facts, just an accusation of racism and a young kid claiming he's bleeding out. They were (in their heads) damned if they did and damned if they didn't. And then they acted horrendously anyway.

Think you've also got to look at what's been done to policing since 2010. Numbers have been cut, funding has been cut, departments are overstretched, there's no bobbies on the beat getting to know these young lads and understand them. Just over-worked and under-trained people paralysed by fear, ignorant of the people they're serving, and the repercussions of mistakes lingering in their heads in crunch moments.

Whole thing is a tragedy.
 
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East Level 2 said:
The difference is Floyd was killed by the police and there was a perception the murderer would get away with it. Here the murderer won't get away with it.
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think you find he did get away with it, a minimum of 21 years, saying that with the profile of this case he will probably be got at on the inside, deffo be a target on his head
 
Ban-jani said:
It is but my point still stands
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The riots and protests post-George Floyd began under the assumption that the killer in question wouldn't be found guilty despite us all seeing him pressing his knee into Floyd's neck on video.

The riots and protests ongoing after Henry Nowak's murder started after the killer was sentenced to jail time. Unless these current protestors want the police officers jailed too, I'm unsure if they're the same.
 
East Level 2 said:
The difference is Floyd was killed by the police and there was a perception the murderer would get away with it. Here the murderer won't get away with it.
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In addition Henry Nowak was an 18 student. George Floyd was a known criminal, allegedly escaping from armed robbery. Just saying before I get called a gammon or whatever the latest playground insult is.
 
i kne albert davy said:
Alas CPR it’s pointless when his lungs were full of blood but officer wasn’t to know that, it all happens so quickly. About 30 years ago we were on holiday in Crete the sea was rough but i’m a pretty strong swimmer even more so back then and i saw a guy about 100 yards away in some distress takes a while to work out how much trouble he’s in, i got to him before the life guard and kept him afloat, alas by time we got him to the beach he’d gone despite the CPR we couldn’t fetch him back watching someone pass is awful, to this day i think could i have reacted quicker would it have made a difference and i can see him struggling clear as day.
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that sounds truly awful-and I expect you reflect on that often-as I do over things I dealt with-I simply try to be kind to myself because no matter, I did what I did at the time with the best intentions.
 
Nigel Farage showing everyone just who is again today at PMQ's.

What a despicable gifting wanker he is.

Thinly veiled threats of more violence-he isn't above the law.
 
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