Henry Nowak murder

[Pingu the Penguin]

My personal experience, as well as the experiences of people I know personally are ill thought out?

Any joy with that article?

 

[bert38]

I have personally attended a call where a drunk guy in the custody of the police was claiming he was suffering with chest pains. We had him in the back of the ambulance with the door pulled shut and the copper stood outsode the door. Once he was inside he actually whispered to us that he was faking it. Luckily he wasn't in the least bit aggressive towards us.

A former collegue of mine was in a similar situation with a drunk guy and ended up getting stabbed in the stomach before the copper jumped in and restrained him.

Thank you, most people have no idea how violent people can be, and how things can change in an instant-

I take my hat off to anyone who works on the frontline in the NHS, paramedics, A&E, the police, fire…be nice if their pay recognised the value they add to society.

I should add the armed services too-we look down on people who do the hard shit to protect us and look after us and they should be rewarded accordingly.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

I never said they were told by emergency services on the way to the call. I don't know details of what was said in the actual call other than they had awareness some sort of disturbance had taken place.

The point is that when they arrived at the scene, probably without any knowledge at that point of what's gone on, they were told by several people what had happened. That turned out to be a huge, awful, pack of lies. But at the time, there'd have been a natural human instinct to believe the little information you've been given and act based on that. With no mention of a stabbing from the family and information that the "assailant" has fell when trying to run away, as bad as it sounds it isn't irrational to assume he's a suspect who's either drunk and/or concussed saying they've been stabbed when in actual fact they've assaulted someone and fell.

They family said he fell and the officers in attendance proceeded to ignore any potential injuries from the said fall ? Cuff him first. Check for broken bones, compound fractures, later. Seriously?

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Assaulted someone without a scratch on them?

You're totally missing how quick they are having to act on everything. Multiple people said he had assaulted Digwa. Digwa said he had an injury to his eye (nothing I could see from the video), but stopping to check Digwa up and down for some bruising or redness and accuse him of lying because of the lack of obvious marks - no, I don't think that's plausible in the moment.

 

[Ohrodneyrodney]

You not getting on board with dying lad about to turn into Bruce Lee and cause 'havoc' at any second.

Struggling. Also I’m hoping that when he said “cuffing him would be a no brainer” he meant that only someone without a brain would have done it.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

You're totally missing how quick they are having to act on everything. Multiple people said he had assaulted Digwa. Digwa said he had an injury to his eye (nothing I could see from the video), but stopping to check Digwa up and down for some bruising or redness and accuse him of lying because of the lack of obvious marks - no, I don't think that's plausible in the moment.

Why did the police man ask Digwa if he was injured? Because he had immediately as soon as he arrived on scene noticed that the victim was injured

 

[ayrshire_blue]

They family said he fell and the officers in attendance proceeded to ignore any potential injuries from the said fall ? Cuff him first. Check for broken bones, compound fractures, later. Seriously?

I don't think they should've cuffed him mate, I've said as much throughout, I'm just arguing I can see why they did and that it's not totally unreasonable. Playing devil's advocate to an extent here is all.

There'll be situations where suspects are cuffed then when police know there's little or no risk then they'll remove them when satisfied. Or certainly if/when their status as a suspect is no longer valid. Initial response though would be hands on and secure, which is usually right but in this case tragically not.

 

[hilts]

I never said they were told by emergency services on the way to the call. I don't know details of what was said in the actual call other than they had awareness some sort of disturbance had taken place.

The point is that when they arrived at the scene, probably without any knowledge at that point of what's gone on, they were told by several people what had happened. That turned out to be a huge, awful, pack of lies. But at the time, there'd have been a natural human instinct to believe the little information you've been given and act based on that. With no mention of a stabbing from the family and information that the "assailant" has fell when trying to run away, as bad as it sounds it isn't irrational to assume he's a suspect who's either drunk and/or concussed saying they've been stabbed when in actual fact they've assaulted someone and fell.

Right so they go to a disturbance and see someone who has maybe fallen over or has been hurt as they havent spoken to anyone yet and their first notion is to cuff him and chat to several people like its fucking jackanory rather deal with the obvious main concern, the guy on the floor.
Their story was not important at this time, you go to the lad while asking how he fell, you check him out and talk to him. You can even listen to those around you, there were 3 officers no? Human beings are capable of talking listening and using their eyes all at the same time.
Its not a bloody gift or something that needs training.

 

[bert38]

Right so they go to a disturbance and see someone who has maybe fallen over or has been hurt as they havent spoken to anyone yet and their first notion is to cuff him and chat to several people like its fucking jackanory rather deal with the obvious main concern, the guy on the floor.
Their story was not important at this time, you go to the lad while asking how he fell, you check him out and talk to him. You can even listen to those around you, there were 3 officers no? Human beings are capable of talking listening and using their eyes all at the same time.
It’s not a bloody gift or something that needs training.

One officer did go to him, he handcuffed and arrested him. A minute later a colleague realised he was struggling and they commenced CPR. Those decisions will be examined by the IOPC as to whether that was reasonable in the circumstances or as a police officer, to coin a phrase, ‘they lacked curiosity.’

 

[ayrshire_blue]

Right so they go to a disturbance and see someone who has maybe fallen over or has been hurt as they havent spoken to anyone yet

They have. They spoke to the Digwa family. The Digwa family told Police what had happened which then prompted the response we seen.

 

[hilts]

Struggling. Also I’m hoping that when he said “cuffing him would be a no brainer” he meant that only someone without a brain would have done it.

I have seen so many coppers deal with drunks and people being abusive and they almost never cuff them straight off. They also check them out if they fall or have fallen.

This is not about coppers in general but there are lot of them so you are gonna get some that are useless, incompetent or just have a shit attitude, that's life. Last week most right minded posters were annoyed with those wankers at the airport because of what they did to police officers.

 

[hilts]

One officer did go to him, he handcuffed and arrested him. A minute later a colleague realised he was struggling and they commenced CPR. Those decisions will be examined by the IOPC as to whether that was reasonable in the circumstances or as a police officer, to coin a phrase, ‘they lacked curiosity.’

And I believe any copper who goes to someone obviously in distress and doesn't check him out has no place in the police force.

Lacked curiosity is a fancy way of saying didn’t care enough.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

They have. They spoke to the Digwa family. The Digwa family told Police what had happened which then prompted the response we seen.

The first thing the Digwa family said when the copper was on scene was that he had to be held up and had blood in his mouth. You’ve been told this multiple times on this thread

 

[bert38]

And I believe any copper who goes to someone obviously in distress and doesn't check him out has no place in the police force.

Lacked curiosity is a fancy way of saying didn’t care enough.

I think he’d made his mind up as to what he was dealing with-ultimately that’s what he will need to explain.

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Any joy with that article?

Found it! @Alan Harper's Tash

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Have I? Its been mentioned as part of the facts along with everything else. There's no dispute that they know that he's injured, and the blood in the mouth/held up adds to that. I'm just not sure how it materially changes things in terms of their response. Injured parties with blood and what not are at times still more than capable of becoming aggressive at any given point.

You're not sure why being told someone is injured, immediately spotting yourself they are injured, not seeing injuries on the alleged victim, being told by the actual victim that they can't breath and have been stabbed is in any way relevant to the actions of the police in response. Seriously?

 

[mackenzie]

Why didnt they cuff the killer once he had been arrested? Or did they? Genuine question.

 

[Phil1]

A set of circumstances tragically came together which in the end is a tiny snapshot of where we are right now.
The police officers on the scene ultimately failed. There are mitigating circumstances as to why they had a right to be apprehensive and cautious, they were attending what they thought was a racial attack and the tinderbox that is the U.K. has had it driven into their heads by every section of the media that all the problems we face today are because of foreigners.
Sadly that has seeped into the consciousness of those high up and it's been passed down a drip at a time until it ends with a situation like this.
A young man clearly in a bad way telling an officer he hoped was there to save him he was stabbed and an absolute dereliction of duty by the officer to not take that claim seriously.
There were many failings in this instance, the most obvious we can all see for ourselves but the more damning and dangerous are those we don't see.

 

[ayrshire_blue]

You're not sure why being told someone is injured, immediately spotting yourself they are injured, not seeing injuries on the alleged victim, being told by the actual victim that they can't breath and have been stabbed is in any way relevant to the actions of the police in response. Seriously?

Had deleted my post because I didn't put my point across well at all, but you've quoted it before I managed to. Sorry, that's not me trying to be a dick just for the record.

The point I was trying to make, but put across very poor, was that it doesn't change the fact that he was painted as an assailant by seemingly credible witnesses. That's regardless of him being injured or having blood in the mouth etc, probably assumed to have been from a fall. The stuff about him being stabbed and unable to breathe was tragically thought to be lies, brought about by the presumption of intoxication or concussion or a mix of both given the seemingly decent and coherent people have said nothing about a knife or stabbing. They probably thought they had time to establish how badly he was injured and if he would soon come to or whatever. They didn't.

I feel like we're going round in circles so it's probably best I've said my peace here and wait for the inevitable investigation results.

Thoughts are genuinely with Henry's family, and needless to say the members of the Digwa family involved in this should be left to rot. The Police at the scene? That's where I'm having the difference of opinion and difficulty in hanging them out to dry.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Found it! @Alan Harper's Tash

Our moustaches are different.