History's what you make it

[Gary James]

I've just received the latest copy of When Saturday Comes (Feb 2012) and spotted several interesting and relevant pieces that have a connection to my own views on City and Manc football in general.

First, the story that Arsenal's 125th anniversary celebrations may be incorrectly timed. It seems there is little evidence that the Gunners are as old as they say and that the actual evidence of formation in 1886 came some 20 years later. This is very similar to the situation in Manchester where both City & Utd's early histories have often been incorrectly recorded and why detailed research continues.

Utd, for example, have no evidence whatsoever of activity pre-1880 but insist on saying they were founded as NH in 1878 (based on a fixture card from over a decade later).

As for City's early history.... lots of confusion at times but efforts by a few of us, including considerable effort from Paul Toovey (read his books), has cleared much up. I'm also involved with a major history project at City which hopefully will help enormously.

Second, the story of Peel Park Accrington and an archaelogical dig - they've found all sorts of fan related/social history objects. About 15 years ago I wrote to Time Team suggesting they do a dig at the site of City's old Hyde Rd ground. It's still possible (much of the site was only tarmacced over, not built on) and would prove very interesting. Any archaelogists out there want to pursue?

Third, photoshoot from a Children's Film Foundation movie "Cup Fever" - interesting because Bert Trautmann presents the medals.

There's more in the mag, but I thought I'd share these. Incidentally, I will be announcing something significant (I think it's significant, others may not) about my City research & writing soon.

 

[ChorltonAzzurro]

That bit about when united were formed is quite interesting. My grandad used to go on about them not being able to decide when they were formed and making it up as they went along. He died in 1990, was this information out there then?

 

[Gary James]

That bit about when united were formed is quite interesting. My grandad used to go on about them not being able to decide when they were formed and making it up as they went along. He died in 1990, was this information out there then?

I wrote a lot on this in "Manchester A Football History" - basically United's own history books talked of them being formed as Newton Heath in 1880s up until mid 70s when suddenly they focused on 1878 because a late 1880s fixture list talked on the club being founded in 1878 - but it didn't say they played football.

The first known match report comes 1 week exactly after St. Mark's (City) first known game. No NH sporting games can be found pre-1880 yet, but St Mark's Cricket Club fixtures were reported on at various points in 1868 and 1870s - so there's evidence showing City's roots going back further than the Reds regardless of whether you base it on first known football game; first use of Manchester in name; first known sporting activity.