HMS Ocean to be scrapped

[mancitymick]

Eh, how old is it? I thought Ocean was one of the decent bits of kit.

Came into service min 90's mate. Fully operational 2 years later.

 

[Damocles]

@Gelsons Dad This stupid or sensible?

 

[stony]

Nothing the MOD do makes sense. The biggest crime is trying to develop our own arms and equipment when it always ends up costing far more and is usually inferior to stuff that is already on the market. The only reason I can think of is to hand big fat contracts to someone who will be rewarding you with a seat on the board when you retire.
In the 80s when it was time to replace the venerable SLR, instead of going for something which would be cheaper and better, they went for a design that was shit, cost a fortune and dated from WW2. It was so bad they had to bring in Heckler and Koch to fix it.
So our forces are usually woefully equipped and countries who spend far less on defence than us have far better weapons and equipment.

 

[SWP's back]

Why the fuck would something be given a £65m overhaul then to scrap it 2 years later? Great this conservative government aren't they.

You've obviously not met Ed Woodward

65m? Pah. He shits that.

 

[SWP's back]

Tories fucking up defence shocker

Kept trident though, unlike JC

 

[Damocles]

The biggest crime is trying to develop our own arms and equipment when it always ends up costing far more and is usually inferior to stuff that is already on the market. The only reason I can think of is to hand big fat contracts to someone who will be rewarding you with a seat on the board when you retire.

Developing our own weapons has massive economic benefits. We fund the skills and training of people in the manufacturing industry, employ lots of people, keep the production line flowing thus save them from the dole and most importantly we put enough funds into it that these companies who manufacture here can keep their technologies up to date so that they can compete with foreign entities for other contracts

 

[kaz7]

Kept trident though, unlike JC

That i do agree with them on
By the way i never voted for Corbyn,never wanted him and still can't believe how fucking stupid it is having him as leader

 

[mancitymick]

6 years a go we got rid of 5 Type 22 B3 Frigates, Still had plenty of life in them. Rather then sell them they scrapped them. Add to the the 4 Type 23 Frigates that were not even 20 years old.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

@Gelsons Dad This stupid or sensible?

Developing our own weapons has massive economic benefits. We fund the skills and training of people in the manufacturing industry, employ lots of people, keep the production line flowing thus save them from the dole and most importantly we put enough funds into it that these companies who manufacture here can keep their technologies up to date so that they can compete with foreign entities for other contracts

To be honest I'm not sure yet about Ocean. On first inspection it would appear premature but it depends on the timing of the first aircraft carrier which will do Oceans job as well as host the F35s.

I agree with your second post but it's a shame we've been playing catch up since the early 70s in the (heavy end of the)defence industry. I'm no fan of BAE systems but I'd rather we put our money behind it than keep funding other nations industries. At least we have a decent slice of F35 and we have one or two other sexy bits of kit which are home grown.

We do rule the world when it comes to ejection seats too! http://www.martin-baker.com/

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Developing our own weapons has massive economic benefits. We fund the skills and training of people in the manufacturing industry, employ lots of people, keep the production line flowing thus save them from the dole and most importantly we put enough funds into it that these companies who manufacture here can keep their technologies up to date so that they can compete with foreign entities for other contracts

Completely agree.
The French have only 1 non French aircraft in their entire military, an AWACS.
French police drive only French cars.

 

[mancitymick]

To be honest I'm not sure yet about Ocean. On first inspection it would appear premature but it depends on the timing of the first aircraft carrier which will do Oceans job as well as host the F35s.

I agree with your second post but it's a shame we've been playing catch up since the early 70s in the (heavy end of the)defence industry. I'm no fan of BAE systems but I'd rather we put our money behind it than keep funding other nations industries. At least we have a decent slice of F35 and we have one or two other sexy bits of kit which are home grown.

We do rule the world when it comes to ejection seats too! http://www.martin-baker.com/

There is going to be a 3 year period from HMS Ocean being Decomissioned to the QE being operational capable. Only one of the Albion and Bulwark is in service at any one time. This will leave us with 1 capital ship. 4 years a go we had 6

 

[Gelsons Dad]

There is going to be a 3 year period from HMS Ocean being Decomissioned to the QE being operational capable. Only one of the Albion and Bulwark is in service at any one time. This will leave us with 1 capital ship. 4 years a go we had 6

I get that but I think QE could be available in the support/special ops role earlier. They probably need Oceans man power for QE too as there's nobody else around! and as an addendum, I wouldn't be surprised if the decommissioning date slips a bit.

 

[stony]

Developing our own weapons has massive economic benefits. We fund the skills and training of people in the manufacturing industry, employ lots of people, keep the production line flowing thus save them from the dole and most importantly we put enough funds into it that these companies who manufacture here can keep their technologies up to date so that they can compete with foreign entities for other contracts

The employment thing doesn't work. We could still build the stuff over here on licence and people would still have jobs. The biggest outlay for weapons is the design and testing. We've proved incredibly inept at this over the last 40 years or so. We rarely win foreign weapons contracts. Even commonwealth countries won't buy our crap. We are the only country in the world who use the SA80, yet we boast about it being the most accurate assault rifle.
The Eurofighter cost a fucking fortune and we've only managed to sell it to a few countries. The list of countries testing it and turning it down is embarrassingly large. The Challenger 2 which we laughingly call the best tank in the world is only operated by us and Oman. Meanwhile the Leopard 2, which is really the best tank in the world, is exported everywhere.

 

[mancitymick]

I get that but I think QE could be available in the support/special ops role earlier. They probably need Oceans man power for QE too as there's nobody else around! and as an addendum, I wouldn't be surprised if the decommissioning date slips a bit.

The man power is the main issue. We are on its arse. If you look at the 6 x Type 45's. If we got all the man power that is on those we could only fully man 3.5 of them

 

[manclad]

The employment thing doesn't work. We could still build the stuff over here on licence and people would still have jobs. The biggest outlay for weapons is the design and testing. We've proved incredibly inept at this over the last 40 years or so. We rarely win foreign weapons contracts. Even commonwealth countries won't buy our crap. We are the only country in the world who use the SA80, yet we boast about it being the most accurate assault rifle.
The Eurofighter cost a fucking fortune and we've only managed to sell it to a few countries. The list of countries testing it and turning it down is embarrassingly large. The Challenger 2 which we laughingly call the best tank in the world is only operated by us and Oman. Meanwhile the Leopard 2, which is really the best tank in the world, is exported everywhere.

So what are the decent bits of equipment that have been developed in the last 30/35 years in your opinion?? AS90 self propelled gun, Warrior AFV and I was going to add the new light AFV buy I think that has been developed by General Dynamics. Any others Stony??

 

[stony]

So what are the decent bits of equipment that have been developed in the last 30/35 years in your opinion?? AS90 self propelled gun, Warrior AFV and I was going to add the new light AFV buy I think that has been developed by General Dynamics. Any others Stony??

AS90 is only operated by us and the Warrior by us and Kuwait. I wonder what the export record of their rivals is.

It's not that we haven't developed good stuff, we clearly have. It's just that it's been massively over expensive and in most cases not as good as it's competition.

 

[Brightwell’s left peg]

Tories fucking up defence shocker

They should get LVG in. He's seemingly doing well turning a shite defence into a decent defensive unit in combination with no real intention of attacking anybody?

 

[Francis Rizzo]

So what your proposin?

Errrrrrrrrrrr don't scrap her! Will that do?

 

[blueinsa]

Somebody has to keep the international arms trade going along with their shareholders (mates).

 

[smudgedj]

It's part of the plan for an EU armed forces.