How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[ChicagoBlue]

Good post. I think everyone can see the benefits of a trading relationship with mainland Europe but the EU has turned into a political entity. Once you make it about politics then you are bound to hit trouble. Most of us want growth (except climate change zealots - Why no Climate related thread everyone?) Most of us love money, most of us love capitalism but if the price is having to follow someone elses political idealism then 'no thanks'. Trade yes, Politics no.

Common Market.
European Economic Community.
European Union.

The relentless march went too far, but now entrenched interests will not allow anyone to step back a bit, but still be a valued partner.

So be it.

Those 22 miles of water saved us, for the most part, for millennia.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Other countries have a distinctly different relationship with the EU, but that relationship is not “available” to the UK, because we dared to listen to voters who didn’t want everything the EU was “offering.”

In short, we were given an “all or nothing” ultimatum. Even though it was clear many millions of voters want a relationship with the Continent, the EU has nixed anything less than “give us all the money and none of the autonomy or nothing!”

We've always been somewhat on the fringes. The overall 'project' was basically a way to try and stop France and Germany having wars which required large amounts of us and UK blood and treasure. So far it's been very much a success.

 

[blueparrot]

Other countries have a distinctly different relationship with the EU, but that relationship is not “available” to the UK, because we dared to listen to voters who didn’t want everything the EU was “offering.”

In short, we were given an “all or nothing” ultimatum. Even though it was clear many millions of voters want a relationship with the Continent, the EU has nixed anything less than “give us all the money and none of the autonomy or nothing!”

Wrong, many options were available and offered to the UK, options similar to those enjoyed by Switzerland, Norway, Iceland after the vote to leave. The government of the day pressured by a small group of extreme anti europeans, chose to opt for the worst option a hard brexit.
We will begin a long road back to those other options, it will take years though to get something we could have had from the day after the vote.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

In short, we were given an “all or nothing” ultimatum

This is nonsense, honestly. The exact reverse is true.

Here's the spectrum Barnier put on the table.



We chose where we would be. Other countries, as illustrated, made different choices.

What was not on offer was cakeism.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

We've always been somewhat on the fringes. The overall 'project' was basically a way to try and stop France and Germany having wars which required large amounts of us and UK blood and treasure. So far it's been very much a success.

Indeed.

However, the idea that countries inextricably entwined by common economic interests would not go to war.

That idea has been polluted by a European political organization that seeks to curb individual political national interests. At that point, self-determinative democracy ends and sweeping bureaucracy begins.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Have met a few family members that I haven't seen for a while over the Xmas holidays who have been abroad this year. All have commented that there is now a marked difference between the UK and many European destinations - cleaner streets, new buildings, better street surfaces, better public transport - just basically the product of investment which just has not been made in the UK for a decade or more.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I think everyone can see the benefits of a trading relationship with mainland Europe but the EU has turned into a political entity

Trade and politics are not separate!

 

[ChicagoBlue]

This is nonsense, honestly. The exact reverse is true.

Here's the spectrum Barnier put on the table.

View attachment 141762

We chose where we would be. Other countries, as illustrated, made different choices.

What was not on offer was cakeism.

If only politics were so simple as to be able to put them on one page with pretty flags.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

Have met a few family members that I haven't seen for a while over the Xmas holidays who have been abroad this year. All have commented that there is now a marked difference between the UK and many European destinations - cleaner streets, new buildings, better street surfaces, better public transport - just basically the product of investment which just has not been made in the UK for a decade or more.

I've visited 14 European countries this year, both in and out of the EU.

I think it's fair to say that UK public spaces are less well cherished than almost anywhere else.

The sense of community and shared spaces somewhere like Germany is worlds apart from the UK, and even in places like Albania it's palpably different.

I'm not sure what drives this, but I don't think it's EU membership.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If only politics were so simple as to be able to put them on one page with pretty flags.

Nice deflection.