How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

i kne albert davy said:
Frightening ain't it 25% in 5 years mind Putin and his potty war and a Pandemic didn't help much.
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Yes both those things played a huge part. Suspect there may have been some underlying inflationary pressure under the surface before that which those two events brought to the surface

Also a lot of exploitative pricing in the last few years as well.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
They never seem to be adequately answer what the Brexit they did vote for was.
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That's because the Brexit marketed was to be like Norway or Switzerland (Farage) and/or "still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border" (official Leave campaign) and then they found out that it wasn't that simple to get a good deal and rely on German carmakers or "have the political will to walk away with no deal" (@Oldham Exile who, I assume from his silence, is indeed now an EU citizen in his EU exile).
 
Were going to have to make a call on whether we align closer to the EU fairly shortly. Trump is now stating repeatedly that the US "needs Greenland". We potentially have to side with the US who may be close to invading a fellow NATO territory or angle towards Europe. Either way, having lost our influence in Europe, and now having none with the US or anyone else for that matter, we will need to make a stark choice.

Causing a regime change in Venezuela on the back of drugs and oil is one thing, invading a fellow NATO country may well be a step too far for much of the international community. It may well be a rocky road ahead whichever way we turn.
 
hampshireblue said:
Causing a regime change in Venezuela on the back of drugs and oil is one thing, invading a fellow NATO country may well be a step too far for much of the international community. It may well be a rocky road ahead whichever way we turn.
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The choice would cause a huge schism in British siociety, whichever way we went.
 
Vic said:
How many Brits are going to support the USA's annexation of Greenland?
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That isn’t the correct question.

The correct question is, how many would equivocate or reluctantly accept it, such is their visceral hatred of the EU? I would guess around 20%. There would be others who would be strongly opposed but would still, in the final analysis, prefer we were aligned with the US, rather than Europe. Some of that will be informed by their politics, or be cultural, but others simply because they would feel safer being aligned with the biggest bully in the playground.

I think combined they would at least amount to 35% of the UK population, possibly more.

That’s more than enough to represent a huge schism, given the existential nature of the choices available.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That isn’t the correct questi
The correct question is, how many would equivocate or reluctantly accept it, such is their visceral hatred of the EU? I would guess around 20%. There would be others who would be strongly opposed but would still, in the final analysis, prefer we were aligned with the US, rather than Europe. Some of that will be informed by their politics, or be cultural, but others simply because they would feel safer being aligned with the biggest bully in the playground.

I think combined they would at least amount to 35% of the UK population, possibly more.

That’s more than enough to represent a huge schism, given the existential nature of the choices available.
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A third of Brits would choose to be aligned with the biggest bully in the world?

We could move that to the thread, "What has the UK become under the far right influence?"
 
Vic said:
A third of Brits would choose to be aligned with the biggest bully in the world?

We could move that to the thread, "What has the UK become under the far right influence?"
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I’ve said it before, but it absolutely deserves repeating. People like you are the reason Remain lost in 2016, so well done.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
That isn’t the correct question.

The correct question is, how many would equivocate or reluctantly accept it, such is their visceral hatred of the EU? I would guess around 20%. There would be others who would be strongly opposed but would still, in the final analysis, prefer we were aligned with the US, rather than Europe. Some of that will be informed by their politics, or be cultural, but others simply because they would feel safer being aligned with the biggest bully in the playground.

I think combined they would at least amount to 35% of the UK population, possibly more.

That’s more than enough to represent a huge schism, given the existential nature of the choices available.
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I'm not sure. Many of those who looked back at the 1970s and the EEC with rose tinted spectacles and wished we were back there and so voted to Leave are now dead. Very few who are now under the age of 28 got to vote in 2016 and so they have seen the shambles we have endured, as well as probably being the group most affected by lack of freedom of movement and other opportunities. There will always be some who are vehemently against the idea of Europe and integration with the misguided view that Brussels made every law we ever had in the UK. Unfortunately the likes if Farridge and Tice are still around to spread their bollocks on the matter but I reckon 60% would now see through that as far as the EU is concerned. If Labour can sort out immigration Farridge become an irrelevance politically.
 
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Vic said:
It's a great myth this. That people who are wrong would change their minds so long as no-one told them they were wrong.
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I think lots of people voted leave when they wouldn’t have otherwise bothered to cote at all, due to the attitude of certain remain voters, but that wasn’t limited to being told they were wrong, and the fact you plainly think it was is telling.
 
Maybe already posted or common knowledge, but one small thing you can do to support a Rejoin movement...

petition.parliament.uk

Petition: Apply to Rejoin the EU as soon as possible to increase growth in the UK

We believe Brexit's not working. The OBR judges that the UK economy is smaller and trade is weaker because of Brexit, and it will just get worse. 10 years after the Brexit vote, let's apply to rejoin the EU, reverse the damage, boost growth, increase tax revenues and restore opportunities in the UK
petition.parliament.uk petition.parliament.uk
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
They never seem to be adequately answer what the Brexit they did vote for was.
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Because those who voted for Brexit didn't have a single unified idea of what they wanted - it was a vote against something, not for something, with a lot of disparate views of what the replacement would be. Hence there was never going to be a single version of Brexit that satisfied all the Brexit voters. Lots of vague 'taking back control' talk without being clear on what was actually going to be controlled (so, e.g., lots of people disappointed to discover that leaving the EU doesn't mean leaving the European Convention on Human Rights because that isn't anything to do with the EU).
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I think lots of people voted leave when they wouldn’t have otherwise bothered to cote at all, due to the attitude of certain remain voters, but that wasn’t limited to being told they were wrong, and the fact you plainly think it was is telling.
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What did these "certain remain voters" say to make undecided people turn out? Are you saying that there are people dumb enough to vote for something only because someone tells them it would be dumb to vote for it?
 
Ashton Moss Messi said:
Maybe already posted or common knowledge, but one small thing you can do to support a Rejoin movement...

petition.parliament.uk

Petition: Apply to Rejoin the EU as soon as possible to increase growth in the UK

We believe Brexit's not working. The OBR judges that the UK economy is smaller and trade is weaker because of Brexit, and it will just get worse. 10 years after the Brexit vote, let's apply to rejoin the EU, reverse the damage, boost growth, increase tax revenues and restore opportunities in the UK
petition.parliament.uk petition.parliament.uk
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That's been going a month and it's nowhere near the 100,000 to get it debated in Parliament.
 
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