How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Heard people on Question Time last night complaining about how bad everything is yet they can’t go back.They couldn’t even countenance the idea of debating the issue. That is what I find so fascinating: the idea of debate is now psychologically scarier to them than the very real economic and social pain they are enduring. That is desperate.
 
bluealf said:
No, it isn't a winner, I would imagine it is so far away from what people actually had in mind when they voted to leave.

Fancy trusting 'honest' politicians to implement such a complex scenario and that goes for all, leavers, remainers and the EU.
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It’s pretty aligned with what I had in mind when I vioted to remain, should we collectively vote to leave, partly because I didn’t truet our political class to implement it with any degree of competence. And I’m not claiming any particular powers of prescience, I’m frequently bad at predicting events, I just applied a bit of logic and common sense, which seemed to depart so many other, otherwise rational people around the subject of the EU.

This was all inevitable imo, certainly through the prism of a hard Brexit.

Why on earth did you think unravelling fifty years of bilateral international trading and political ties was going to be any thing other than extremely painful. It simply doesn’t stand to reason to assume otherwise. In fact, to me, it borders on an insane and utterly reckless analysis of the situation. Its fucking nuts to think this was going to be anything other than a horrible process.

And it’s going to get far worse.
 
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
It’s pretty aligned with what I had in mind when I vioted to remain, should we collectively vote to leave, partly because I didn’t truet our political class to implement it with any degree of competence. And I’m not claiming any particular powers of prescience, I’m frequently bad at predicting events, I just applied a bit of logic and common sense, which seemed to depart so many other, otherwise rational people around the subject of the EU.

This was all inevitable imo, certainly through the prism of a hard Brexit.

Why on earth did you think unravelling fifty years of bilateral international trading and political ties was going to be any thing other than hugely complex and extremely painful. It simply doesn’t stand to reason to assume otherwise. In fact, to me, it borders on an insane and utterly reckless analysis of the situation. Its fucking nuts to think this was going to be anything other than a horrible process.

And it’s going to get far worse.
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Was there a box marked 'hard brexit' on the polling paper?

I also didn't want to see large swathes of hard-working foreign folk booted out of the country or allowed in to work but I wanted better border security, like Australia or even the US both made up of a lot of foreign nationalities, a sensible approach was required not this, you can't come in because you only pick fruit and that test is also joke, I'm sure I'd fail it lol

Getting screamed down as a racist by remainers was also a great highlight.

I think May screwed the deal but then she was a remainer originally if memory serves, her paper to get past parliament with the remainers voting things down and demanding changes left us in this sorry mess.

It could have been dealt with a lot better than it was, like I said previously all sides are to blame for this utter mess.

Northern Ireland is going to be a huge issue, I'd imagine there will be a huge push to make it 'one' soon enough.
 
bluealf said:
Was there a box marked 'hard brexit' on the polling paper?

I also didn't want to see large swathes of hard-working foreign folk booted out of the country but I wanted better border security, like Australia or even the US both made up of a lot of foreign nationalities.

Getting screamed down as a racist by remainers was also a great highlight.

I think May screwed the deal but then she was a remainer originally if memory serves, her paper to get past parliament with the remainers voting things down and demanding changes left us in this sorry mess.

It could have been dealt with a lot better than it was, like I said previously all sides are to blame for this utter mess.

Northern Ireland is going to be a huge issue, I'd imagine there will be a huge push to make it 'one' soon enough.
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No, there wasn’t a hard Brexit option. It was a binary choice, which was part of the problem imo, given the complexity of the matter being voted upon.

Blaming the current shit show on the parliamentary votes around May’s proposal(s) is completely wide of the mark, as it presupposes that it would otherwise have gone relatively smoothly. This appears to underline the fact that you fail to appreciate what a monumental undertaking uncoupling from the EU was, whatever particular twist and turns the narrative took following the vote to leave. The story board might have been different, but the end result would have been the same.

The Northern Ireland situation is, upon reflection, once again, another inevitable consequence of all this, which no one, myself included, appeared to properly applied their minds to - but of course it was going to significantly complicate things further. How could it not?
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
No, there wasn’t a hard Brexit option. It was a binary choice, which was part of the problem imo, given the complexity of the matter being voted upon.

Blaming the current shit show on the parliamentary votes around May’s proposal(s) is completely wide of the mark, as it presupposes that it would otherwise have gone relatively smoothly. This appears to underline the fact that you fail to appreciate what a monumental undertaking uncoupling from the EU was, whatever particular twist and turns the narrative took following the vote to leave. The story board might have been different, but the end result would have been the same.

The Northern Ireland situation is, upon reflectio, once again, another inevitable consequence of all this, which no one, myself included, appeared to properly applied theur minds to - but of course it was going to significantly complicate things further. How could it not?
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Cheers.

I'm off to bed to ruminate on my own stupidity.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
It’s pretty aligned with what I had in mind when I vioted to remain, should we collectively vote to leave, partly because I didn’t truet our political class to implement it with any degree of competence. And I’m not claiming any particular powers of prescience, I’m frequently bad at predicting events, I just applied a bit of logic and common sense, which seemed to depart so many other, otherwise rational people around the subject of the EU.

This was all inevitable imo, certainly through the prism of a hard Brexit.

Why on earth did you think unravelling fifty years of bilateral international trading and political ties was going to be any thing other than extremely painful. It simply doesn’t stand to reason to assume otherwise. In fact, to me, it borders on an insane and utterly reckless analysis of the situation. Its fucking nuts to think this was going to be anything other than a horrible process.

And it’s going to get far worse.
Click to expand...
Well, the ‘designer’ and mentor of brexit is gone.
We know that he never believed in brexit, evidenced by the fact that, by his own admission, he had no intention of keeping to the deal he himself signed, and of course the two versions he wrote on the subject - one for, one against. Brexit to him was simply a tool to achieve his lifelong aim of being ‘king of the world, or prime minister which was more practical.
But what we are left with is a cabinet and senior ministers who readily followed the pied piper, believing - quite rightly- that in return for their devotion to the brexit cause, they would receive the riches of prime ministerial patronage and would get jobs which they were spectacularly incapable of doing. But it didn’t matter, they fell into line and so it was done.
Now however, these same people, with the demise of Johnson, are freed of the dogma of brexit, they no longer have to nod along with the accepted orthodoxy.
The opportunity now arises for some clear uninfluenced thinking on the govt. front bench and from the incoming PM to actually break from the old Johnson line and admit what we already know - that brexit is a disaster and will continue to be so for generations.
Assuming it’s not a lunatic fringe candidate- eg baker or braverman- that wins , there is an outstanding chance that some new thinking could be applied and brexit could be reviewed in light of what we know now and not what was dishonestly promised by those who knew it was undeliverable.
Probably a forlorn hope to hope for original thinking in the Tory party.
 
That article is a few years old and I'm sure the economics may have changed since that conversation took place.
 
FT piece on our medical regulator struggling to find staff and lagging behind on approvals. Interesting to see how this plays out over a longer timespan.

‘Their audit of "novel" drugs authorisatiions in 2021 found that only 35 so-called novel medicines were approved for use in the UK... 2021

...compared with 40 in the EU

....and 52 in the US.

This isn't that surprising, as I say, since theUK is only 2.4% of global health spend versus 22% in the EU.

So market size makes the paperwork less worthwhile. Also the NHS is a nighmare and NICE, the rationing/approvals body, doesn't fund some new meds’
 
This is a very interesting thread which illustrates how much of a reverse ferret Brexit action is over Brexit rhetoric

 
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