How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

paulchapo said:
It's not as simple as that though is it? Brexit has never got going because of infighting and then a global shutdown for two years. You can't leave something you've been tied to for fifty years without hiccups. Also vast numbers of politicians didn't want it so will do anything to ensure it fails as they want a return. They never actually thought the vote would be to leave either so were Ill prepared when it did.

Every country is suffering economically but here everything is blamed on brexit.its an easy excuse, just as from the other side everything was blamed on being in the EU when we were in it.

There is one thing I do know. Large numbers of people in the UK were poor before joining what was then the common market, poor during the period we were in it, will be poor out of it and poor if we rejoin. Vast areas in the country had no real prospects that their lives were ever going to improve. In those areas the vote to leave was more a vote against the sneering establishment who had ignored them for decades.
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regardless of infighting and global events there has been no upside to Brexit, nothing.
 
East Level 2 said:
Starmer showing he's thinking about the red wall seats rather than the nation. He's fucking spineless.
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I'm no fan of the man he's a terrible choice as leader of the opposition, but he dare not say he'd reverse Brexit as he'd never get elected. Poor as he is as a leader we need to get the present bunch of crooks out then start having discussions on bigger issues.
 
Gremlin said:
The right wing of the Labour Party are worried about the red wall seats that voted to leave, the left wing of the Party never the liked the idea of the EU in the first place as they saw it as a capitalist free market ideal so all in all you won't see Labour backing a return to the EU any time soon.
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You will, when they are in power. Labour know full well that Remainers will vote them anyway but if starmer is in the sun, Mail and express (and he would be on the front page) he would lost a number of leave voters from the lowest socio economic classes.

They and the country will have only one option to mount any kind of recovery and that will be a managed move back to the EU, starting with the customs union.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
You will, when they are in power. Labour know full well that Remainers will vote them anyway but if starmer is in the sun, Mail and express (and he would be on the front page) he would lost a number of leave voters from the lowest socio economic classes.

They and the country will have only one option to mount any kind of recovery and that will be a managed move back to the EU, starting with the customs union.
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Not a chance.
 
Didsbury Dave said:
You will, when they are in power. Labour know full well that Remainers will vote them anyway but if starmer is in the sun, Mail and express (and he would be on the front page) he would lost a number of leave voters from the lowest socio economic classes.

They and the country will have only one option to mount any kind of recovery and that will be a managed move back to the EU, starting with the customs union.
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Agree. Brexit is dead. Question is when not if politicians start to talk about having a better trading arrangement with the EU and getting rid of the internal border with NI.

Rishy was a brexiteer but the neo liberlist dream died under LT, a couple of free ports wont save us - in fact they make it worse as they are just a giant tax avoidance vehicle. The only possible growth option is via the EU trade deal.
 
paulchapo said:
It's not as simple as that though is it? Brexit has never got going because of infighting and then a global shutdown for two years. You can't leave something you've been tied to for fifty years without hiccups. Also vast numbers of politicians didn't want it so will do anything to ensure it fails as they want a return. They never actually thought the vote would be to leave either so were Ill prepared when it did.

Every country is suffering economically but here everything is blamed on brexit.its an easy excuse, just as from the other side everything was blamed on being in the EU when we were in it.

There is one thing I do know. Large numbers of people in the UK were poor before joining what was then the common market, poor during the period we were in it, will be poor out of it and poor if we rejoin. Vast areas in the country had no real prospects that their lives were ever going to improve. In those areas the vote to leave was more a vote against the sneering establishment who had ignored them for decades.
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I find a lot of that agreeable, but there is also the notion that those who remain in the EU at the behest of those murky characters behind the smoked glass in Brussels were determined that it would not be a positive thing to leave. When there was a so-called negotiation why is there so much shite when a lorry or a container, or a piece of paper, hits Dover. I bought a coin dispenser for my grandson during the summer. French design, bought over the internet from the company in France and when it arrived the package contained three 'invoices' - every one identical! Why would they send three to the person receiving the package! I fancy there summat afoot to make life between UK and EU as troublesome as it could be. Waste of paper, waste of time, and pretty pointless.
 
If Brexit was a product of any kind, it would have been recalled by the manufacturer as unfit for purpose. Some acknowledgement needs to be made that some way back into the single market should be a priority to make up for some of the annual 4% GDP that has been lost. The recent shitshow has Brexit right at its' core.
 
So freight doesn't go into Felixstowe it goes to Rotterdam - then there is more paperwork we imposed on ourselves to get goods from there to the UK - madness

 
BlueHammer85 said:
regardless of infighting and global events there has been no upside to Brexit, nothing.
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But it’s democracy, we get to choose who governs us and how, just like getting a new prime minister, erm, wait… that doesn’t count, that’s different…
 
Dave Ewing's Back 'eader said:
I find a lot of that agreeable, but there is also the notion that those who remain in the EU at the behest of those murky characters behind the smoked glass in Brussels were determined that it would not be a positive thing to leave. When there was a so-called negotiation why is there so much shite when a lorry or a container, or a piece of paper, hits Dover. I bought a coin dispenser for my grandson during the summer. French design, bought over the internet from the company in France and when it arrived the package contained three 'invoices' - every one identical! Why would they send three to the person receiving the package! I fancy there summat afoot to make life between UK and EU as troublesome as it could be. Waste of paper, waste of time, and pretty pointless.
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Of course they don't want it to be a success as otherwise other countries night want to leave. I was a kid in school when the vote to join was happening. It was supposed to be all about trade, making it easier to do so and goods cheaper. I remember teachers saying what a great thing it was. I believe it was called the common market then and in principle it certainly sounded a great idea. The problem is it then evolved from making trade easier to wanting to make every country governed from Brussels with less and less power to run themselves. It's a great shame it came to this but it is what it is, we'll see how it pans out.
 
paulchapo said:
Of course they don't want it to be a success as otherwise other countries night want to leave. I was a kid in school when the vote to join was happening. It was supposed to be all about trade, making it easier to do so and goods cheaper. I remember teachers saying what a great thing it was. I believe it was called the common market then and in principle it certainly sounded a great idea. The problem is it then evolved from making trade easier to wanting to make every country governed from Brussels with less and less power to run themselves. It's a great shame it came to this but it is what it is, we'll see how it pans out.
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Shame you dont seem to remember that we were already in when the vote to join took place.
 
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