FFS. We had a referendum with 'IN' or 'OUT'. We did not vote to get seats at the negotiating table.
If you were told the truth by the leave campaign about what leaving meant to our economy would you have still voted for it?FFS. We had a referendum with 'IN' or 'OUT'. We did not vote to get seats at the negotiating table.
The short answer is 'Yes'. The long answer is that most hard line Remainers just do not get it. For many leavers it is just a matter of principle and it would take a lot more than 4% GDP to change those principles.If you were told the truth by the leave campaign about what leaving meant to our economy would you have still voted for it?
I think you will find that in or out is black or white.Brexit isn’t a black and white subject of in or out, it’s a whole spectrum of shades of grey. Your lack of understanding of what it actually meant and what ramifications it had for the U.K. is another example of why we are in the shit show we are in. Would you admit that this wasn’t explained to you by the chancers who cobbled together the leave campaign?
I think you will find that in or out is black or white.
My Remain vote meant nothing because Remain lost so why would I even bother thinking about it. If in 5 years we find that leaving brought about a new golden age of economic prosperity for Britain I’ll show my arse in Market Street.The short answer is 'Yes'. The long answer is that most hard line Remainers just do not get it. For many leavers it is just a matter of principle and it would take a lot more than 4% GDP to change those principles.
Now you, if in say 5 years time it turns out that leaving really was a great idea economically would you regret your Remain vote?
Did you trust Kwarteng and Truss?But the referendum question was IN or OUT! Somewhere along the line you have to trust your elected representatives to negotiate the details, surely? Theresa May's deal was rejected by both sides, I was quite happy her deal but once it was rejected we just had both sides going for a total win. i.e The compromise was rejected and it became a fight to the death and one side died.
Did you trust Cameron and Osborne your remain leaders? Did you believe their every word?Did you trust Kwarteng and Truss?
Why won't you answer my question? Is it because you are a little too close to all those nasty greedy tories who vote for what's best for their own pocket? How do you justify all those flights and holidays to yourself? Why don't you not have so many holidays and give the money to the worse off? Or do you really not give a shit and think that saying "I care" on internet forums is good enough?My Remain vote meant nothing because Remain lost so why would I even bother thinking about it. If in 5 years we find that leaving brought about a new golden age of economic prosperity for Britain I’ll show my arse in Market Street.
The fact that a 4% downturn in the economy causing hardship for millions means less to you than some abstract feeling of taking back control that we already had suggests that you’re a fanatic. What percentage downturn would change your principles? 10%, 20%? Or as someone in their mid 60s with a guaranteed pension do you not really give a shit.
I have no idea what a hard line remainer is. Remain meant maintaining the status quo. All completely understandable and the same irrespective of whether someone is an imaginary hard or soft remainer, whereas there are numerous versions of leave covering BRINO to No Deal. Once the vote was lost, most sensible people wanted a leave deal that did the least damage to the economy which is the opposite of what we’ve got.
Do you mean the ludicrous irrelevant question about would I regret my Remain vote if Brexit is a roaring success? As I said my vote lost so I would not need to regret it as I would just be enjoying the sunlit uplands. As for my trips abroad, where did I say they were all holidays? And how do you know I don't make donations to charity. You're making some idiotic assumptions without knowing any factsWhy won't you answer my question? Is it because you are a little too close to all those nasty greedy tories who vote for what's best for their own pocket? How do you justify all those flights and holidays to yourself? Why don't you not have so many holidays and give the money to the worse off? Or do you really not give a shit and think that saying "I care" on internet forums is good enough?
Who are these mythical hard line Remainers? Why were you so scared of a second referendum to vote on the terms of the deal? The electorate was trusted to vote for Brexit in the first place based on a tissue of lies. Why not give them a chance once the parameters of the deal had been established? No need to answer that because we know that you'd be shit scared of losing.On the Leave deal, I would have been quite happy if a negotiated deal could have been found where everyone was happy but I think you need to look into the mirror a bit and see how a leave voter thought.
1) Leave won but hard line remainers were insistent that a second referendum should take place with Remain back on the ballot! There was no interest in any other option, just get remain back as an option.
Irrelevant and a matter of opinion only.2) We had a Remain House Speaker who was a lot of a dick.
Where is the evidence for this? The Article 50 vote had a majority of 384 with just 47 Labour MPs voting against along with the Scottish and Welsh nationalists and the Lib Dems. 498 MPs (over 80%) voted to invoke it so opposition was only from a small minority.3) We had MP's who voted to give us a referendum overwhelmingly who then spent their days and nights trying their best to ignore that referendum.
The Lib Dems were never going to win, and if you mean Labour you're wrong. Labour's position was to negotiate a withdrawal agreement and trade deal and put the deals to the electorate.4) We had a major political party who went into the 2019 election declaring that they would overturn the Leave referendum decision.
Bit of a generalisation, although as a leaver you seem to fit quite well into the stereotype you have described.5) Remainers spent most of the time telling everyone that 'Remain voters went to University' and calling Leavers Stupid, Racist and Xenophobic whilst not having the wit to combat a sign on a bus (sorry, it was on both sides of the bus so a bit difficult to counter).
What's an EU winner?6) No one wanted the status quo but EU winners. Bit like Tories again, in truth.
Lol. There is absolutely zero chance that the leave vote will ever be thought of as an economic success. The damage has been done and continues to be done. There is no upside and never will be. Suggesting it may happen at some distant point in the future without ever being able to say why is classic brexit BS.Now you, if in say 5 years time it turns out that leaving really was a great idea economically would you regret your Remain vote?
Still not answered my question. You really are now wriggling like a Tory MP in an interview. Wriggle, wriggle. Go on admit it "It's all about the money".Do you mean the ludicrous irrelevant question about would I regret my Remain vote if Brexit is a roaring success? As I said my vote lost so I would not need to regret it as I would just be enjoying the sunlit uplands. As for my trips abroad, where did I say they were all holidays? And how do you know I don't make donations to charity. You're making some idiotic assumptions without knowing any facts
Who are these mythical hard line Remainers? Why were you so scared of a second referendum to vote on the terms of the deal? The electorate was trusted to vote for Brexit in the first place based on a tissue of lies. Why not give them a chance once the parameters of the deal had been established? No need to answer that because we know that you'd be shit scared of losing.
Irrelevant and a matter of opinion only.
Where is the evidence for this? The Article 50 vote had a majority of 384 with just 47 Labour MPs voting against along with the Scottish and Welsh nationalists and the Lib Dems. 498 MPs (over 80%) voted to invoke it so opposition was only from a small minority.
The Lib Dems were never going to win, and if you mean Labour you're wrong. Labour's position was to negotiate a withdrawal agreement and trade deal and put the deals to the electorate.
Bit of a generalisation, although as a leaver you seem to fit quite well into the stereotype you have described.
What's an EU winner?
Bottom line is you're a typical Brexiteer who won't take ownership of the mess it has caused and instead is trying to blame everyone who said it was a bad idea in the first place. It's pathetic.
That's just silly mate.Lol. There is absolutely zero chance that the leave vote will ever be thought of as an economic success. The damage has been done and continues to be done. There is no upside and never will be. Suggesting it may happen at some distant point in the future without ever being able to say why is classic brexit BS.
If it makes you happy and stops you fixating on this non-issue, should this implausible situation occur I would regret my vote. However it doesn’t stop it being a ludicrous question because there is absolutely no prospect of it being an economic success in 5 years. Most leavers have settled on a timeframe of 20-40 years for it to be a success. Not even Farage, Mogg or Johnson have suggested it will be sunlit uplands in 5 years. Now do you get it?Still not answered my question. You really are now wriggling like a Tory MP in an interview. Wriggle, wriggle. Go on admit it "It's all about the money".
Thanks for confirming that you’d be scared of losing. If Brexit was so great you’d have had nothing to fear about a vote 4 years after the first one where people have a chance to revisit their opinion. We get a vote for a new government in similar timeframes so following your logic we’d have a PM for life.There was nothing wrong with a second, third, fourth referendum asking us more detailed questions on preferences each time. The issue was putting Remain back on the ballot as a choice. We had already answered that question and the fact that only Remainers were calling for Remain to be put back on the ballot tells you that it was about selfish self interest.
No idea what you’re on about. Parliament gave us a vote and voted overwhelmingly to implement the vote. The fact it was remain dominated is not only irrelevant but proof that most MPs went along with it for the sake of democracy even if they thought it was crap. We’ve had a leave dominated government since July 2019 and they’ve failed us all.Misunderstanding. I was talking about Parliament voting overwhelmingly to give us a referendum in the first place. A Remain dominated Parliament at that.
It’s you who’s all over the place. Why would I be bothered about the manifesto of one very small minority party?Lib Dems were never going to win is a matter of opinion? Leave were never going to win? Labour were all over the place and ended up with Leavers and Remainers not trusting them. The fact is that a Remain dominated major UK party thought it was ok to just ignore a democratic referendum decision and you are not bothered? Would you have been more bothered if it was the other way around?
Not sure what your point is. If you think that Brexit was going to bring about some sort of Communist utopia where everyone gets treated the same irrespective of their personal abilities you’re utterly deluded. Brexit has done the exact opposite reducing everyone’s opportunities apart from the super rich.EU winner. I think that the EU favours the academically gifted who can pass exams and then get the contacts and best job opportunities (bit like Tories again). Those less academically gifted are treated as a sub species (Stupid, Racist, Xenophobic, need to listen to their betters, move where labour is required and serve those Capuccinos and wipe our parents arses whilst we go on our holiday).
I’m blaming the likes of you for fucking up my country and making it a place where my children have less opportunities than they would have had as part of the world’s largest trading bloc. One that the Brexit cheerleader in chief is encouraging Ukraine to join as soon as it can.I'm not blaming anyone for any of my decisions. My life, my decisions and I will live with the consequences. Let's not forget that this thread is created as a sort of 'let's take the piss out of the thick brexiters' thread so it's fair you get some back? That moral high ground you think you are standing on is not that high at all.
'Is NOT a trading group' - I think you've completely missed the whole point of why the EU was formed.We left the EU. The EU is a political organisation NOT a trading group. It's like someone telling you 'I'll make you rich but you have to vote Tory forever and follow our rules forever', no problem for Tories but others may object? Leavers objected to a political organisation not trading arrangements. Different political views are currently allowed.
Unfortunately we all have to live with the consequences.I'm not blaming anyone for any of my decisions. My life, my decisions and I will live with the consequences. Let's not forget that this thread is created as a sort of 'let's take the piss out of the thick brexiters' thread so it's fair you get some back? That moral high ground you think you are standing on is not that high at all.
When you say you will live with the conseqiuences , thats not true , you said you were 64. Those leaving school and starting their lives are the one that will live with the consequences of a decision that restricts their opportunities, opportunities I had and all of us in our 50s and 60s benefited from. People like my parents are included in that too, I know my late father and my mother regret that vote, and their vote for this government to implement it.Still not answered my question. You really are now wriggling like a Tory MP in an interview. Wriggle, wriggle. Go on admit it "It's all about the money".
There was nothing wrong with a second, third, fourth referendum asking us more detailed questions on preferences each time. The issue was putting Remain back on the ballot as a choice. We had already answered that question and the fact that only Remainers were calling for Remain to be put back on the ballot tells you that it was about selfish self interest.
Bercow. Irrelevant to you maybe but not to me and millions of leavers. Just my opinion.
Misunderstanding. I was talking about Parliament voting overwhelmingly to give us a referendum in the first place. A Remain dominated Parliament at that.
Lib Dems were never going to win is a matter of opinion? Leave were never going to win? Labour were all over the place and ended up with Leavers and Remainers not trusting them. The fact is that a Remain dominated major UK party thought it was ok to just ignore a democratic referendum decision and you are not bothered? Would you have been more bothered if it was the other way around?
EU winner. I think that the EU favours the academically gifted who can pass exams and then get the contacts and best job opportunities (bit like Tories again). Those less academically gifted are treated as a sub species (Stupid, Racist, Xenophobic, need to listen to their betters, move where labour is required and serve those Capuccinos and wipe our parents arses whilst we go on our holiday).
I'm not blaming anyone for any of my decisions. My life, my decisions and I will live with the consequences. Let's not forget that this thread is created as a sort of 'let's take the piss out of the thick brexiters' thread so it's fair you get some back? That moral high ground you think you are standing on is not that high at all.
I think it’s just one now. The rest have quietly disappeared.Are the Brexiteers still trying to defend the decision?
Still waiting for the benefits it has brought?