How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

[blueparrot]

What baffles me is as a baby boomer why is it bad for you to "have had it all and still want more" ? Why doesn't the respondent demand even better for themselves? Thats the issue with this country - we peaked than from 1980 on there began a gradual decline which has accelerated in the last 13 years into a tumble off a cliff but still people are persuaded that YOU are the problem YOU'VE done ok rather than them asking why they worse off - much worse off than they should be but don't blame the system thats done it to them instead allow the system to persuade them that its not the system thats at fault you are to blame for their plight ...... go figure

We peaked in 1980 then declined ? you see the 70s as some kind of pinnacle for the UK, really?
Nobody minds that the baby boomers did okay, what people mind are those baby boomers that did well as E U members with the advantages it brought then voted to remove those opportunities from the future generations. I doubt many asked their grand children what they wanted. I know my parents didn’t and it made their all 5 grand children a little bit angry with them. What I will say for my parents is they acknowledged they made an error of judgement and regretted their vote.

 

[bluethrunthru]

We peaked in 1980 then declined ? you see the 70s as some kind of pinnacle for the UK, really?
Nobody minds that the baby boomers did okay, what people mind are those baby boomers that did well as E U members with the advantages it brought then voted to remove those opportunities from the future generations. I doubt many asked their grand children what they wanted. I know my parents didn’t and it made their all 5 grand children a little bit angry with them. What I will say for my parents is they acknowledged they made an error of judgement and regretted their vote.

All I know for sure it that my grand parents did better than their parents - my mum and dad did better than theirs - we have done better than ours so overall an upward trajectory for probably a century with the odd bump and scrape along the way.

I want even better than I have for my kids. As it stands they are very unlikely ever to afford to buy their own home. They will work far longer than me they are looking likely to die younger than me - they probably won't get a state pension and have poorer healthcare than I have enjoyed through my life.

Your response to palerider accused him of having it all and wanting more just by dint of when he was born - I chose 1980 for a reason - things have gone downhill from that period because out of the last 44 years all but 13 have been under a Tory Govt - the rich have got richer and still want more - Zahawi was a classic example of the grabbing cunts of his type. If you are unhappy blame the people pulling the strings not someone just because of their d.o.b.

 

[Grassland Blue]

We peaked in 1980 then declined ? you see the 70s as some kind of pinnacle for the UK, really?
Nobody minds that the baby boomers did okay, what people mind are those baby boomers that did well as E U members with the advantages it brought then voted to remove those opportunities from the future generations. I doubt many asked their grand children what they wanted. I know my parents didn’t and it made their all 5 grand children a little bit angry with them. What I will say for my parents is they acknowledged they made an error of judgement and regretted their vote.

I too am 64, but I am a remainer.
I was unable to vote as I was in China at the time.
It's quite straightforward to me, the bigger the area you have in which to operate, the greater the chance of finding an opportunity for yourself to be successful.
Those opportunities for success are now, sadly, much reduced.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

We peaked in 1980 then declined ? you see the 70s as some kind of pinnacle for the UK, really?

i thought that a bizzare comment too. We declined from the end of WW2 up to about 1980, but the 35 years that followed it we weren’t in decline, which coincided with our EU membership btw.

Baby boomers are, in the main, selfish cunts.

 

[East Level 2]

i thought that a bizzare comment too. We declined from the end of WW2 up to about 1980, but the 35 years that followed it we weren’t in decline, which coincided with our EU membership btw.

Baby boomers are, in the main, selfish cunts.

I'm a baby boomer and I can be a selfish ****, but I'm not sufficiently selfish, or cuntish, to have voted for the clusterfuck of Brexit.

 

[Gingers Dad]

I was born at home in a two bedroomed terrace with no bathroom. My brother, who I shared a bed with says that we used to lay in bed looking at the stars because there was holes in the ceiling and roof. I have never in my life had my own room. My first holiday was when I was 15 years old, caravan in Rhyl. I played for the school team but the school and parents were so poor we didn't have a kit. I used my uncles work socks as football socks. My mum was so stressed she had multiple breakdowns and was in and out of Springfield my entire childhood. By age 7 I was very independent and would catch trains from Victoria to Heaton Park, actually do the weekly shop (not from a list), I shopped. My mum finally succumbed to her mental demons when I was 14 and died. I did well at school, passed my 11 plus and went to Grammar school. I passed 8 O Levels and wanted to stay, do A levels, get a degree, get a great fulfilling job but our family finances were such that I needed to start earning. I later did get a degree through the OU after 6 years of home study. I got a decent job in the end.
Yes, I am a baby boomer. I wish your son well.

Some pretty tough stuff, you've obviously done well for yourself from a grim beginning. Obviously I'm not surprised you didn't answer the question what have you personally gained from leaving the EU

 

[Palerider]

What baffles me is as a baby boomer why is it bad for you to "have had it all and still want more" ? Why doesn't the respondent demand even better for themselves? Thats the issue with this country - we peaked than from 1980 on there began a gradual decline which has accelerated in the last 13 years into a tumble off a cliff but still people are persuaded that YOU are the problem YOU'VE done ok rather than them asking why they worse off - much worse off than they should be but don't blame the system thats done it to them instead allow the system to persuade them that its not the system thats at fault you are to blame for their plight ...... go figure

Got it now. It took me a while to work out what you were saying!
It's a really good question. If someone asked me the biggest advantage of being a baby boomer I would say 'not going to war'. But not going to war has meant a record number of long living pensioners and directly led to massive social care and pension bills (and you would say brexit) which have led to our current problems. Why are the young so angry with baby boomers? On the face of it I think the world they have been born into is far, far better than we? were born into from a materialistic point of view but strangely much less socially cohesive. I know many claim that getting on the housing ladder is impossible but from what I can see that surely just applies to London?
Are they that worse off? I see plenty of young faces at the Etihad, Glastonbury and most festivals sell out, many go travelling, have expensive mobile phones, eat fast food, pubs, concerts, apple earbuds! Being young was never easy.
I'm not sure I agree with the 'we peaked in 1980' comment. I think things have improved for 80% of the country year on year for a long time. The bottom 20% have paid the price though. So I think youngsters in the bottom 20% have every right to be pissed off at society. Not so the top 80%.
Finally, yes, the young should get angry, demonstrate, campaign, change the world, shake up the status quo. Some do, Greta Thumberg may not be popular with some, including me, but at least she has fire in her belly!

 

[Palerider]

Some pretty tough stuff, you've obviously done well for yourself from a grim beginning. Obviously I'm not surprised you didn't answer the question what have you personally gained from leaving the EU

On 'grim beginnings'. Apart from my mum's illness everything else was perfectly normal for me and many others. Not a hardship at all, just normal for a kid growing up in the 60's on a council estate.

I'll answer your question. Financially, nothing, which is exactly what I expected. I've stated before that what I want, is as few people telling me what to do as possible. So getting rid of busy bodies laying down laws and regulations was a chance too good to miss for me. I think being part of smaller, like minded communities is more healthy mentally, probably not financially, than trying to force everybody into being one happy family. So, I think my sympathy and support will always go to those seeking independence rather than those who want to create empires.

 

[Vic]

Thank you, that's very kind of you to say so.

.... in my mind the lack of vision showed by the remain camp has to shoulder as much blame as the ERG nutjobs.

Wow - the vision to see a massive disaster is not good enough? Ridiculous to say "the remain camp" is equally to blame as the people who wanted Brexit.

 

[Vic]

It isn't aimed at anyone, it's something I've noticed not just in here by a couple but out in the real world. I agree there was an opportunity for opposition parties to force through a better Brexit, and will be again. However it wouldnt be and won't be and will never be the Brexit some are saying they thought they might get when they voted.

What opportunity?

 

[Vic]

Not sure I called it a success, just much too early to call it a failure. I think you are overstating the problems brexit has created. With any system change there will be issues surely? They will sort themselves out eventually as people get used to new systems and improve their processes. For instance, I believe there are paperwork issues with exports. Who uses paper these days? Surely it's a business opportunity for a software house to come up with a solution. If the government think there are no solutions then they should resign enmasse and let people a bit more positive have a go.

Oh good grief. All the stuff is done with software before they do the printout.

No-one can write a program to avoid all the extra "red tape" that some idiots thought would get less, or not fill in the customs forms previously unnecessary.

You are wumming, surely.

 

[Vic]

I was born at home in a two bedroomed terrace with no bathroom. My brother, who I shared a bed with says that we used to lay in bed looking at the stars because there was holes in the ceiling and roof. I have never in my life had my own room. My first holiday was when I was 15 years old, caravan in Rhyl. I played for the school team but the school and parents were so poor we didn't have a kit. I used my uncles work socks as football socks. My mum was so stressed she had multiple breakdowns and was in and out of Springfield my entire childhood. By age 7 I was very independent and would catch trains from Victoria to Heaton Park, actually do the weekly shop (not from a list), I shopped. My mum finally succumbed to her mental demons when I was 14 and died. I did well at school, passed my 11 plus and went to Grammar school. I passed 8 O Levels and wanted to stay, do A levels, get a degree, get a great fulfilling job but our family finances were such that I needed to start earning. I later did get a degree through the OU after 6 years of home study. I got a decent job in the end.
Yes, I am a baby boomer. I wish your son well.

A pan-European common market? We were lucky to have a corner shop to gaze enviously in the window.

 

[bluethrunthru]

i thought that a bizzare comment too. We declined from the end of WW2 up to about 1980, but the 35 years that followed it we weren’t in decline, which coincided with our EU membership btw.

Baby boomers are, in the main, selfish cunts.

No they are not - they simply have grown up in a world where generation after generation has had it better than the previous one. It baffles me why younger people are prepared to die in penury and blame older folk rather than blame people who have taken most of this countries wealth and offshored it rather than put it to good use for the benefit and growth of the nation.

 

[west didsblue]

On 'grim beginnings'. Apart from my mum's illness everything else was perfectly normal for me and many others. Not a hardship at all, just normal for a kid growing up in the 60's on a council estate.

I'll answer your question. Financially, nothing, which is exactly what I expected. I've stated before that what I want, is as few people telling me what to do as possible. So getting rid of busy bodies laying down laws and regulations was a chance too good to miss for me. I think being part of smaller, like minded communities is more healthy mentally, probably not financially, than trying to force everybody into being one happy family. So, I think my sympathy and support will always go to those seeking independence rather than those who want to create empires.

Name an EU law or regulation that we no longer have to follow that has improved your life in any way at all.

 

[Palerider]

Oh good grief. All the stuff is done with software before they do the printout.

No-one can write a program to avoid all the extra "red tape" that some idiots thought would get less, or not fill in the customs forms previously unnecessary.

You are wumming, surely.

How old are you? 40 years ago we didn't have the Internet. Things change all the time, heart transplants, electric cars, mobile phones, a black American president, a non white UK prime minister. If there is a problem then someone will find a way to solve it.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

No they are not - they simply have grown up in a world where generation after generation has had it better than the previous one. It baffles me why younger people are prepared to die in penury and blame older folk rather than blame people who have taken most of this countries wealth and offshored it rather than put it to good use for the benefit and growth of the nation.

Not sure penury adequately describes my circumstances.

Wonder why most of them, about 60%, voted for Brexit, if it wasn’t because they are selfish cunts.

 

[Vic]

Name an EU law or regulation that we no longer have to follow that has improved your life in any way at all.

Don't forget the latest Tory narrative for abolishing "EU laws" is that they were "imposed" on us. The UK voted for the vast majority, and advocated a lot of them.

 

[Palerider]

Name an EU law or regulation that we no longer have to follow that has improved your life in any way at all.

No. There are 3000 aren't there? I'm not going to spend my time looking at rules and regulations when I've just said I don't like rules and regulations!

 

[west didsblue]

Don't forget the latest Tory narrative for abolishing "EU laws" is that they were "imposed" on us. The UK voted for the vast majority, and advocated a lot of them.

Yep, the reality is that rules were created by committees with U.K. representation and voted into law by elected representatives in the EU Parliament. Our own government had the ability to veto most laws if they didn’t want them. Very few, if any, were imposed on us against our will. There was nearly always a compromise agreeable to our negotiators and we had opt outs on the most important things we didn’t want.

 

[Vic]

No. There are 3000 aren't there? I'm not going to spend my time looking at rules and regulations when I've just said I don't like rules and regulations!

3,000? It should be easy to find one then.