How do you explain self organisation in nature?

[Fame Monster]

I stopped reading at this.

Idiot.

*reports post*

 

[ElanJo]

Congruent cognitions - meanings. Beyond consequence any constructed meaning is irrelevant from an evolutionary perspective. So why has meaning/belief/delusion/faith, or whatever you want to construe it as, evolved in ways which clearly cause people to counter their own inclusive fitness?
Explain suicide. Explain mass suicide. Explain war. Tribalism? Hardly. Evolutionary theory evades meaning.

Cognitions and senses are different. Interpretation is not necessary for perception - a reflex being the most obvious example

Congruent cognitions - meanings. Beyond consequence any constructed meaning is irrelevant from an evolutionary perspective.

Yes, beyond the consequences of meaning, meaning is irrelevant with regards to the evolutionary process. At least in my understanding that is the case. Of course the consequences of meaning aren't necessarily actions of an individual. Reducing stress and other physiological and psychological effects are just as relevant.

So why has meaning/belief/delusion/faith, or whatever you want to construe it as, evolved in ways which clearly cause people to counter their own inclusive fitness?

Religion/faith has evolved because, to name a few, a)we wanted answers to questions about the world that we had no way of getting b) because it doesn't stop us from reproducing and c) clearly doesn't consist of entirely negative consequences for classical or inclusive fitness. Indeed it has some positive consequences.

Explain suicide. Explain mass suicide. Explain war. Tribalism? Hardly. Evolutionary theory evades meaning.

Just because Evolution neither picks for or against meaning itself doesn't mean that it doesn't pick for or against the effects of that meaning, so, no, it doesn't evade meaning at all.
Unless you think suicide or war causes problems for evolutionary theory I don't see why I should explain them... but I'll touch on them briefly out of courtesy if nothing else ;).

Studies have shown that suicide could be triggered, in part (along with depression and chemical inbalances), by "suicide genes". Suicide could have been passed on quite easily since most suicide attempts aren't successful and lead to family and friends being alerted to a problem that they then help to solve. If you are interested in evoluton and suicide then you should go and read the studies.
As for war. Aggression is no problem to evolutionary theory. The will to survive can lead you to invade an other group's land for a whole host of reasons.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot about this:

Cognitions and senses are different. Interpretation is not necessary for perception - a reflex being the most obvious example

but perception includes interpretation :/

A reflex, like that of a Venus fly trap for example, doesn't rely on perception but then it is irrelevant to what I was talking about.
A reflex that relies on perception, such as the reflex action that occurs when you put your hand in fire, would be relevant.

I think somewhere along the line we're talking at cross purposes :P

 

[Skashion]

Idiot.

*reports post*

Presumably to be congratulated on my excellent observation skills?

 

[Fame Monster]

*reports post*

Presumably to be congratulated on my excellent observation skills?

Observe this.

Please remember to treat fellow posters with respect. Treat others as you'd expect to be treated. If you are constantly aggressive and confrontational on here you'll get banned.

 

[Skashion]

Ah well, I'm fucked then.

 

[lloydie]

Ah well, I'm fucked then.

Jesus will save you, all you have to do is believe.

 

[Skashion]

Ah well, I'm fucked then.

Jesus will save you, all you have to do is believe.

Spiritually, I'm fine for I have been Touched by His Noodly Appendage, but I fear I may well get the boot from Bluemoon for being constantly aggressive and confrontational towards nashark.

 

[GStar]

Just making sure the self organisation of this thread stays respectful and on topic naturally...

 

[mackenzie]

To continually assert the existence of god despite the absence of any evidence to support the assertion is surely the sign of a closed mind.
You WANT to believe, so you do, nothing wrong with that, just be honest about it and the reasons you WANT it to be true, rather than try and rationalise it.

Had to be done

Faith/George Michael

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqepCssCPT0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqepCssCPT0</a>


Yes, I know it is flippant, but lighten up everyone.

Jesus. ;-)

 

[lloydie]

Jesus will save you, all you have to do is believe.

Spiritually, I'm fine for I have been Touched by His Noodly Appendage, but I fear I may well get the boot from Bluemoon for being constantly aggressive and confrontational towards nashark.

All's well if you've got cover from the Big Bolognese. The volatile temperament is probably the Italian influence, in future repeat 5 Parmesans and a 1 twist of giant pepper mill pepper before reacting.