Hyde Rd Fire Rare Photo

If City were the dominant club at the time, why would you vote for a club that was better run than your main rivals? It wouldn’t make sense.

Seriously, Manchester Central were being too ambitious attempting to force their way into the football league after just one year in existence, it’s no wonder they made enemies. I haven’t checked but I am guessing most teams elected at that time and since had been established for longer than half a decade, apart from maybe in the 1890s.
Central actually had a very strong case and major support via the media too. They had the used of a prominent stadium capable of holding over 20,000 at that time and had several significant former footballing figures involved too, including Billy Meredith and the former Utd capt Charlie Roberts. They were accepted by the 3rd Division but City & Utd combined to block them.

Several clubs did make it into the League with much less playing experience than Central over the years. An obvious one is Chelsea, created (from nothing) in 1905 and joined the League in 1905.
 
We think there ought to be League football in the Belle Vue area, where there are 440,000 people within two miles, and a million people within four miles.

Wonder how that compares to today? Even with all the growth in the city centre, I have to imagine it’s still nowhere near the population densely the city had back then.
 
We think there ought to be League football in the Belle Vue area, where there are 440,000 people within two miles, and a million people within four miles.

Wonder how that compares to today? Even with all the growth in the city centre, I have to imagine it’s still nowhere near the population densely the city had back then.
From the train station:

Within 2 miles - 165,000
Within 4 miles - 600,000

 
Not sure what it's based on so I'd take it with a pinch of salt, but seems like population density has halved in a century.
I assume it’s census data. Definitely only directional, but passes the sniff test. About halving is what I’d thought. Loss of tightly-packed terraces, smaller households and suburbanization spreading the people out over a larger area.
 
I assume it’s census data. Definitely only directional, but passes the sniff test. About halving is what I’d thought. Loss of tightly-packed terraces, smaller households and suburbanization spreading the people out over a larger area.

Smaller families as well? Or maybe that's just a stereotype.
 
Smaller families as well? Or maybe that's just a stereotype.
That’s what I meant by ‘smaller households’. It’s absolutely real. Don’t have time to cite anything, but it’s a fact that the average UK household had 4.5-5 people up to the start of the 20th century. From the 1920s it started falling and now it’s been steady at around 2.5 the last few decades.
 
Is there any high quality colour stadium photos of Hyde Rd that one could frame or am I talking out of my arse?
 
Central actually had a very strong case and major support via the media too. They had the used of a prominent stadium capable of holding over 20,000 at that time and had several significant former footballing figures involved too, including Billy Meredith and the former Utd capt Charlie Roberts. They were accepted by the 3rd Division but City & Utd combined to block them.

Several clubs did make it into the League with much less playing experience than Central over the years. An obvious one is Chelsea, created (from nothing) in 1905 and joined the League in 1905.

I agree that Central had a good case. Despite being a new club, they'd certainly accrued better facilities, a bigger support and greater potential than any of the clubs actually elected or re-elected in the period between 1929 and 1932.

I can see why United were scared of them, but I also understand the reasons for City being wary of their growth. We had a very strong fan base in east Manchester even after the move to Maine Road: to the extent that Belle Vue and its environs didn't have a local side to back, the Blues remained their team despite having decamped to another area of the city.

Though United were in a wretched state as the 1930s dawned and for some time after, there was always potential that they'd recover and challenge for support in some of City's new areas that were more accessible from Maine Road. Indeed, by the end of the decade, United were in the top flight while City had been relegated and our average gate in 1938/39 (albeit in the second tier) exceeded theirs by less than 1,000. I assume that continued backing from the east of the city helped our gates to stay ahead of theirs at that point and we'd have been significantly worse off without it.

It's very tempting for me to look at issues like this with the benefit of hindsight. Given what United eventually became, I'd have loved City to conspire with Central to consign the reds to irrelevance and for the two MCFCs to have contested the main Mancunian rivalry going forward. But I do think that City's stance over Central was logical at the time from the perspective of pure self-interest.

On this day in 1920 City’s Main Stand burned down but was this a stray firework, a discarded cig or terrorist activity and how did MUFC react to City’s request to play at OT instead?

I think this episode deserves more comment on this thread than it's had, and IMO it's much more revelatory in terms of the light it casts on the relationship between City and United throughout the two clubs' history than the Central affair is. It shows how MUFC acted in bad faith towards MCFC in a way that I struggle to recall us doing with regard to them.

I should say that this post comes largely from memory as I don't have access here to my materials on the topic, which are mainly your books. Please feel free to correct anything that's wrong in my recollections.

But as I recall, after the end of WW1, United knew that City were keen to move to a new ground and the reds wanted us to go to Old Trafford rather than to build on a new site of our own (it was believed at the time that we'd take up residence at or near to Belle Vue, though of course we eventually strayed much further afield). City refused, which I assume was because we wanted a ground of our own rather than just to be somebody else's tenant.

Then, as soon as the fire occurred at Hyde Road and City became amenable to the idea of using United's facility, they forgot how much they'd previously wanted this to happen. Instead, they reckoned we'd be desperate and decided to try to shaft us.

IIRC, they demanded all gate receipts attributable to any attendance bigger than for the corresponding fixture the previous season. That was outrageous given that we were challenging for the league at the time and were likely often to attract bigger crowds when not constrained by Hyde Road's limited capacity. But nonetheless, there you have a fine example of the attitude United showed towards us through nearly all of our existence and theirs.

Regrettably, when they shared Maine Road with us after the damage to Old Trafford in the War, the terms they received allowed them to make huge profits and move back in 1949 with large reserves of cash. We should have taken their view of neighbourliness, telling them to do one and share The Willows with Salford RL unless they tipped up all the surplus money to us.
 

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