TGR
Well-Known Member
Gelsons Dad said:
Many thanks for the crucial information Gelson ;-)
I'll pass the information on and get back to you with his reply.
If you fired a bullet in a desert...
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Many thanks for the crucial information Gelson ;-)
I'll pass the information on and get back to you with his reply.
Gelsons Dad
Well-Known Member
TGR said:
ask him how to spell Eötvös while you're at it! :-)
TGR
Well-Known Member
Gelsons Dad said:
OK - I have the answer from my 'very clever friend'...
The answer is yes you could stand at the same point and wait for the 2nd bullet without being hit. The difference in distance would be 9.76 metres.
Why?
The effects of gravity vary with height above sea level and relative humidty & ambient conditions (which are in a constant state of flux) due to weather conditions and the earth's natural curvature (which is constantly changing by the second).
If you waited approximately 5 minutes after shooting the first bullet the distance would vary by 783.42 metres due to the above reasons.
There you have it.
Gelsons Dad
Well-Known Member
TGR said:
We appear to be at cross purposes here!
I was talking about the dropped vs fired hypothesis used to explain Newtons second.
The hypothesis which only works without drag, precession and Coriolis effects.
TGR
Well-Known Member
Gelsons Dad said:
Ahhh....! Thanks for clearing that up Gelson. What that now means then is this:
If shoot a rifle and arrange for a second bullet to be dropped from the same height at the exact moment when the first left the barrel. Which would hit the ground first? Nearly everyone expects that the dropped bullet will reach the dirt first, and Aristotle would have agreed. Aristotle would have described it like this. The shot bullet receives some forced motion from the gun. It travels forward for a split second, slowing down rapidly because there is no longer any force to make it continue in motion. Once it is done with its forced motion, it changes to natural motion, i.e. falling straight down. While the shot bullet is slowing down, the dropped bullet gets on with the business of falling, so according to Aristotle it will hit the ground first.
A bullet is shot from a gun, and another bullet is simultaneously dropped from the same height. 1. Aristotelian physics says that the horizontal motion of the shot bullet delays the onset of falling, so the dropped bullet hits the ground first. 2. Newtonian physics says the two bullets have the same vertical motion, regardless of their different horizontal motions.
pominoz
Well-Known Member
TGR said:Gelsons Dad said:
Ahhh....! Thanks for clearing that up Gelson. What that now means then is this:
If shoot a rifle and arrange for a second bullet to be dropped from the same height at the exact moment when the first left the barrel. Which would hit the ground first? Nearly everyone expects that the dropped bullet will reach the dirt first, and Aristotle would have agreed. Aristotle would have described it like this. The shot bullet receives some forced motion from the gun. It travels forward for a split second, slowing down rapidly because there is no longer any force to make it continue in motion. Once it is done with its forced motion, it changes to natural motion, i.e. falling straight down. While the shot bullet is slowing down, the dropped bullet gets on with the business of falling, so according to Aristotle it will hit the ground first.
A bullet is shot from a gun, and another bullet is simultaneously dropped from the same height. 1. Aristotelian physics says that the horizontal motion of the shot bullet delays the onset of falling, so the dropped bullet hits the ground first. 2. Newtonian physics says the two bullets have the same vertical motion, regardless of their different horizontal motions.
Oi! i posted a link to that earlier. ;)
Gelsons Dad
Well-Known Member
pominoz said:TGR said:Gelsons Dad said:
Ahhh....! Thanks for clearing that up Gelson. What that now means then is this:
If shoot a rifle and arrange for a second bullet to be dropped from the same height at the exact moment when the first left the barrel. Which would hit the ground first? Nearly everyone expects that the dropped bullet will reach the dirt first, and Aristotle would have agreed. Aristotle would have described it like this. The shot bullet receives some forced motion from the gun. It travels forward for a split second, slowing down rapidly because there is no longer any force to make it continue in motion. Once it is done with its forced motion, it changes to natural motion, i.e. falling straight down. While the shot bullet is slowing down, the dropped bullet gets on with the business of falling, so according to Aristotle it will hit the ground first.
A bullet is shot from a gun, and another bullet is simultaneously dropped from the same height. 1. Aristotelian physics says that the horizontal motion of the shot bullet delays the onset of falling, so the dropped bullet hits the ground first. 2. Newtonian physics says the two bullets have the same vertical motion, regardless of their different horizontal motions.
Oi! i posted a link to that earlier. ;)
And it's true in a vacuum over a flat area of constant gravity that isn't rotating. It isn't however true in the real world.
It's like the 2 footballs dropped from the leaning tower or any other height. One filled with air, the other with concrete. Which hit's the ground first?
There is the high school answer which is correct in a vacuum and the real world answer which takes drag into account.
pominoz
Well-Known Member
Gelsons Dad said:pominoz said:TGR said:Ahhh....! Thanks for clearing that up Gelson. What that now means then is this:
If shoot a rifle and arrange for a second bullet to be dropped from the same height at the exact moment when the first left the barrel. Which would hit the ground first? Nearly everyone expects that the dropped bullet will reach the dirt first, and Aristotle would have agreed. Aristotle would have described it like this. The shot bullet receives some forced motion from the gun. It travels forward for a split second, slowing down rapidly because there is no longer any force to make it continue in motion. Once it is done with its forced motion, it changes to natural motion, i.e. falling straight down. While the shot bullet is slowing down, the dropped bullet gets on with the business of falling, so according to Aristotle it will hit the ground first.
A bullet is shot from a gun, and another bullet is simultaneously dropped from the same height. 1. Aristotelian physics says that the horizontal motion of the shot bullet delays the onset of falling, so the dropped bullet hits the ground first. 2. Newtonian physics says the two bullets have the same vertical motion, regardless of their different horizontal motions.
Oi! i posted a link to that earlier. ;)
And it's true in a vacuum over a flat area of constant gravity that isn't rotating. It isn't however true in the real world.
It's like the 2 footballs dropped from the leaning tower or any other height. One filled with air, the other with concrete. Which hit's the ground first?
There is the high school answer which is correct in a vacuum and the real world answer which takes drag into account.
Surely over such a short distance (comparatively) those conditions would be negligible?
Where the fuck is Damocles?
Troubadour
Well-Known Member
Gelsons Dad said:pominoz said:TGR said:Ahhh....! Thanks for clearing that up Gelson. What that now means then is this:
If shoot a rifle and arrange for a second bullet to be dropped from the same height at the exact moment when the first left the barrel. Which would hit the ground first? Nearly everyone expects that the dropped bullet will reach the dirt first, and Aristotle would have agreed. Aristotle would have described it like this. The shot bullet receives some forced motion from the gun. It travels forward for a split second, slowing down rapidly because there is no longer any force to make it continue in motion. Once it is done with its forced motion, it changes to natural motion, i.e. falling straight down. While the shot bullet is slowing down, the dropped bullet gets on with the business of falling, so according to Aristotle it will hit the ground first.
A bullet is shot from a gun, and another bullet is simultaneously dropped from the same height. 1. Aristotelian physics says that the horizontal motion of the shot bullet delays the onset of falling, so the dropped bullet hits the ground first. 2. Newtonian physics says the two bullets have the same vertical motion, regardless of their different horizontal motions.
Oi! i posted a link to that earlier. ;)
And it's true in a vacuum over a flat area of constant gravity that isn't rotating. It isn't however true in the real world.
It's like the 2 footballs dropped from the leaning tower or any other height. One filled with air, the other with concrete. Which hit's the ground first?
There is the high school answer which is correct in a vacuum and the real world answer which takes drag into account.
But this is not the real world...
It's Bluemoon! ;-)
Gelsons Dad
Well-Known Member
pominoz said:
What does negligible mean? When does it override truth?