Iran

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Metalartin said:
Hmmm took round about the time it would take to read postman's link to respond to that haha. Read my response to them above.
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Wish I had read the link. saved me typing and trying to eat my tea.

I don't support Iran, but they are not the bad kids everyone makes them out to be, the Saudi's however are another story. I posted links to some articles by Michael Axeworthy earlier in the thread, read them, he was an expert on Iran.
 
SWP's back said:
Absolutely. If Saudi Arabia want to go and throw the pdf missile back at Iran then let them fill their boots.

But I don’t see why the US or UK should get involved. Do you?
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Because an international response is more likely to be effective that a purely bilateral one. Anyway, I’m ducking out of this one, I’m out of my depth. How’s it going otherwise Sam? All well?
 
Rascal said:
Wish I had read the link. saved me typing and trying to eat my tea.

I don't support Iran, but they are not the bad kids everyone makes them out to be, the Saudi's however are another story. I posted links to some articles by Michael Axeworthy earlier in the thread, read them, he was an expert on Iran.
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They are the bad kids though, maybe not in the ways the west have said at times but did you take a look at that state funded terrorism link I gave? It's longer than Saudi's by the looks of it.
 
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Metalartin said:
Well I wanted him/her to answer anyway, as I had a feeling they were going to link it to something far more recent than when relations with both actually broke down.


I don't think who started it is relevant, they would choose not to be allies even if given a choice by the looks of it. Is "Death to America" not a clear enough message?

Anyway I will leave it there. Everyone is free to support Iran if they want I just said I can't understand why and I still don't. Both Saudi and Iran are cunts but one of them has crossed the line with a direct attack in this proxy war. Simple as that for me.
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I thought reading about a CIA orchestrated coup to overthrow a democratically elected leader because he was a threat to Western interests on 'Iranian' territory and a subsequent 26 years under a US backed dictatorship might have provided you with a bit of context on the relationship. Also it's not a case of support for either but if you asked me which side was the biggest threat to humanity the Saudi's win that hands down.
 
SWP's back said:
Why do you (and they) say they are?

It’s not my job to prove a negative, even the internet doesn’t work like that.
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Isn't that the common consensus in the media who report on it, that Saudi and the UAE are key allies to the USA and UK?

Anyway I assume you're not questioning whether they are or not only the reason why and I did provide my own guess at it in a quick edit. Again though all the matters is one is an ally and one is not and that's not changing any time soon. So why even argue about it? Unless your argument is that we don't need any allies in that region I suppose.
 
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They don't want Iran to build nuclear but Israel been doing it for donkeys of years. Since the 1960s. Stop picking on them. Fucking leave them alone. Saudis are fuckers they are. First solve jamal khashoggi

Imagine if that was at the hands of Iran. Wouldn't hear the end of it.
 
MaineDAWG2008 said:
They don't want Iran to build nuclear but Israel been doing it for donkeys of years. Since the 1960s. Stop picking on them. Fucking leave them alone. Saudis are fuckers they are. First solve jamal khashoggi

Imagine if that was at the hands of Iran. Wouldn't hear the end of it.
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The not so secret and illegal Israeli nuclear program that no-one ever talks about maybe the Iranians have a hunch in whose direction those missiles are targeted ?
 
Right then lads, you've convinced me, give me the t-shirt. Which one is better "We're Iran!... We'll bomb who like!" or "Death to America!"

Only joking. ;)

I've nothing more to add anyway but one "terrorist state" is no better than the other to my eyes.
 
Metalartin said:
Isn't that the common consensus in the media who report on it, that Saudi and the UAE are key allies the USA and UK?

Anyway I assume you're not questioning whether they are or not only the reason why and I did provide my own guess at it in a quick edit. Again though all the matters is one is an ally and one is not and that's not changing any time soon. So why even argue about it? Unless your argument is that we don't need any allies in that region I suppose.
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I’m not asking about what the press spoon feeds us. I’m asking why you refer to them as allies.

As far as I can make out, we buy their oil and they buy our missiles and war planes. It’s hardly a alliance built on moral principles.

Saudi Arabia stands for nothing that we believe makes the West civilised. There’s no freedom of expression, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom of elections, freedom of sexuality or gender.

KSA is a medieval feudal dictatorship that clings to power through internal terror and religious indoctrination.

During the Second World War neither the US nor Russia was our ally until until Germany attacked both. One then remained our ally whilst the other immediately became an enemy once the usefulness of our help was diminished. This is because they were diametrically opposed to our political ideals and our way of life. Saudi Arabia is the same but at present we are still semi useful to them.

I’m not arguing that we don’t need need allies in any way shape of form. I’m arguing that we should be pickier in choosing who we go to bed with. Iran has more ideologically and politically in common with the west and has caused less disharmony on western shores.
 
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SWP's back said:
I’m not asking about what the press spoon feeds us.
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You and I both only have what the press feeds us to go off, that's what everyone does lets not pretend otherwise. That's why I said I understand there will be propaganda on both sides. To say everything bad you've heard about Iran is propaganda and everything you've heard about Saudi is true and only the half of it, is not a reasonable outlook. Things wouldn't add up without Iran being involved in alot of it(Yemen for example).

I've been trying to drop out of this conversation as it's starting to appear that I am pro Saudi which was never what I've said. So lets just leave it there. I only really took an interest in this when our club got smeared with it, I fully admit. I have at least put the research in for both sides though which some don't seem to have done.
 
Metalartin said:
You and I both only have what the press feeds us to go off, that's what everyone does lets not pretend otherwise. That's why I said I understand there will be propaganda on both sides. To say everything bad you've heard about Iran is propaganda and everything you've heard about Saudi is true and only the half of it, is not a reasonable outlook. Things wouldn't add up without Iran being involved in alot of it(Yemen for example).

I've been trying to drop out of this conversation as it's starting to appear that I am pro Saudi which was never what I've said. So lets just leave it there. I only really took an interest in this when our club got smeared with it, I fully admit. I have at least put the research in for both sides though which some don't seem to have done.
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If any of my post about Saudi or Iran is untrue then let me know.
 
SWP's back said:
I’m not asking about what the press spoon feeds us. I’m asking why you refer to them as allies.

As far as I can make out, we buy their oil and they buy our missiles and war planes. It’s hardly a alliance built on moral principles.

Saudi Arabia stands for nothing that we believe makes the West civilised. There’s no freedom of expression, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, freedom of elections, freedom of sexuality or gender.

KSA is a medieval feudal dictatorship that clings to power through internal terror and religious indoctrination.

During the Second World War neither the US nor Russia was our ally until until Germany attacked both. One then remainder our ally whilst the other immediately became an enemy once the usefulness of our help was diminished. This is because they were diametrically opposed to our political ideals and our way of life. Saudi Arabia is the same but at present we are still semi useful to them.

I’m not arguing that we don’t need need allies in any way shape of form. I’m arguing that we should pickier in choosing who we go to bed with. Iran has more ideologically and politically in common with the west and has caused less disharmony on western shores.
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Excellent post that mate.

Oil and arms money is what it’s all about, simple.
 
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