Irish Current Affairs.

It’s been a while, so….. discuss.

Quite a good video that...you know my background, and (but) i have a lot of respect for Colum Eastwood....i like him as a politician and like what he/they are trying to do....i think its a real shame he doesnt get more votes...but i believe its indicative of the nationalist and republican communities that they will vote Sinn Fein as thats a more likely way of getting a Nationalist First Minister.

Hes right, noone really knows what more the DUP want...it all just seems to be that they want further assurances that NI will remain in the UK. Eastwoods response, correctly, is that the "principle of consent" is the best reassurance...its not for the politicians or governments to decide...its for the people of NI and RoI to decide. THIS WAS THE PRINCIPLE THAT UNIONISTS INSISTED UPON during the Good Friday Agreement negotiations. Essentially (IMO) they now want that principle removed.
 
Quite a good video that...you know my background, and (but) i have a lot of respect for Colum Eastwood....i like him as a politician and like what he/they are trying to do....i think its a real shame he doesnt get more votes...but i believe its indicative of the nationalist and republican communities that they will vote Sinn Fein as thats a more likely way of getting a Nationalist First Minister.

Hes right, noone really knows what more the DUP want...it all just seems to be that they want further assurances that NI will remain in the UK. Eastwoods response, correctly, is that the "principle of consent" is the best reassurance...its not for the politicians or governments to decide...its for the people of NI and RoI to decide. THIS WAS THE PRINCIPLE THAT UNIONISTS INSISTED UPON during the Good Friday Agreement negotiations. Essentially (IMO) they now want that principle removed.
I think you know where I stand also, AWG.
I’ve always maintained pretty much the same as Eastwood is saying.
Logically looking at the situation I don’t understand how any Unionist could not see that the GFA is their greatest security.
It was democratically agreed North and South and it enshrines the principle of consent regarding the constitutional position of Northern Ireland.
I’d have more faith in it than a Conservative government if I was in their position.

Maybe that’s easy for me to say. I am interested in the views from a loyalist background in here though regarding how they view the future.
I fully agree with Eastwood anecdotal breakdown of the real reason the DUP will not go into the Assembly with Sinn Fein while they would hold the seat of first minister.

How is life in Northern Ireland without an assembly though?
How is life under the Protocol? What is the view on the ground from ordinary folk.

Is it a subject that bothers daily business and life in general.
 
Surely the good people of NI must have the same view of a Westminster government that the majority in Scotland have?
What hold does the Union still have? Is it simply historic?
 
Maybe that’s easy for me to say. I am interested in the views from a loyalist background in here though regarding how they view the future.
I fully agree with Eastwood anecdotal breakdown of the real reason the DUP will not go into the Assembly with Sinn Fein while they would hold the seat of first minister.

How is life in Northern Ireland without an assembly though?
How is life under the Protocol? What is the view on the ground from ordinary folk.

Is it a subject that bothers daily business and life in general.
Whilst i grew up in a Unionist / Loyalist area....and now live in what could be perceived as a unionist area, i dont really know any "loyalists"....but we are probably looking at semantics...so i cant speak for any.
Hopefully im not being disrespectful to loyalists, but to me their stance is largely "we want to remain British", "we dont want a border in the Irish sea"...and thats about it, i dont really see any other discussion or viewpoint. Opposition to anything just seems to be because it erodes their sense of britishness.

Life without the assembly is really starting to get tough....my wife works in the NHS and i work allied to the NHS...and what we both do is now MASSIVELY impacted by it....which is why it was quite frankly upsetting to hear yer woman from the DUP telling Eastwood he should be honest with constituents and tell them restoring Stormont wont immediately fix the problems we have. I get that the DUP think we need to improve NIs share of budgets from GB, but life has to go on, decisions have to be made and services need money. We need then to get back to work so that all the other issues can be dealt with.

The protocol is something i still dont 100% understand...or fully understand how its affecting us at the moment. What i do know is that money is really starting to get tight...things are a lot more expensive...services are getting harder to access due to lack of funding and increased waiting lists.

Is this all the fault of the protocol? Is this all the fault of the lack of assembly? i really dont know
 
Surely the good people of NI must have the same view of a Westminster government that the majority in Scotland have?
What hold does the Union still have? Is it simply historic?
What would that view be? Genuine question.

A lot of people may well dislike the Westminster government, but theyd rather be ruled by it than by Dublin. And that pretty much the gist of it.
 
What would that view be? Genuine question.

A lot of people may well dislike the Westminster government, but theyd rather be ruled by it than by Dublin. And that pretty much the gist of it.
At all costs too, I believe.
As is their prerogative I might add, but I do feel through history they have had a much bigger say in Westminster than population should dictate.
They know that when propping up Tory governments in Commons voting, they have big leverage.
This is why I say, they need to be careful where they place their trust. If not required the Tories would drop them, no problem.

If you want to go back to the foundation’s of the state it was no different. My opinion is it should never have happened and there were enough mistakes to go around from both sides of the table, but it was the influence of unionism in Northern Ireland which was supporting a coalition government at the time, with Lloyd George as Prime Minister.
George was a Liberal but Churchill was heavily involved in what happened at and after partition.

The problem for unionism now is they see the writing on the wall. They see a time where they will not hold a majority in the North and they can’t contemplate a future they like.

The GFA is democracy in action and it is protection for them that we down south have agreed to. There’s a lot down south will have to have that reality slapped across their face too, when and if the time comes.
But I do think the D in the DUP is a cheek. This from the party that espoused ‘Ulster Says No’.

When I look at Irish history objectively now, which unlike at school, I enjoy doing, I look at those that tried their best in a British system that was slanted against them. Tried their best to Democratically and peacefully make change.
People like Daniel O’Connell and Charles Stewart Parnell. To my mind these were great men.
But the British establishment admittedly with other world problems on their minds, ignored repeated Democratic votes in Ireland and in the end pandered to what was a minority on the island.
Even the drawing up of the border eventually, was done so in a way to maintain a Protestant Unionist majority.

Listen, it’s history. I’m not saying forget, but let’s forgive and get on with it. That is exactly what I believe we did when we voted for the GFA. I believe we sacrificed quite a lot in changing our constitution in the interest of peace and democracy.

Brexit as was pointed out at the time, never took into account that international agreement you had concerning one little corner of your own little union. As I say, Northern Ireland is an afterthought to any Tory government.

I know where my trust would lie if I was living in the North.
 
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What would that view be? Genuine question.

A lot of people may well dislike the Westminster government, but theyd rather be ruled by it than by Dublin. And that pretty much the gist of it.

that Scottish politics has diverged significantly from Englands and irrespective of who is voted into Westminster they will not represent the majority in Scotland. That devolved powers only go so far and that Scotland would be a happier more successful country if it was independent. That membership of a European Union is preferable to being tethered to a failing United Kingdom where England carries all of the constitutional power.

would it be easy? Certainly not. Would it be worth it for generations to come, certainly.

Would a majority in NI still favour being ruled by Westminster.
would an alternative model within a United Ireland not feature regional assemblies that would represent the different priorities of a diverse populace? Is the mistrust of Dublin 100% historical or are their present day valid concerns?
 
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that Scottish politics has diverged significantly from Englands and irrespective of who is voted into Westminster they will not represent the majority in Scotland. That devolved powers only go so far and that Scotland would be a happier more successful country if it was independent. That membership of a European Union is preferable to being tethered to a failing United Kingdom where England carries

would it be easy? Certainly not. Would it be worth it for generations to come, certainly.

Would a majority in NI still favour being ruled by Westminster.
would an alternative model within a United Ireland not feature regional assemblies that would represent the different priorities of a diverse populace? Is the mistrust of Dublin 100% historical or are their present day valid concerns?
Good questions.
I’ll have a good think about that, but perhaps let AWG and others,hopefully, answer first.

A quick thought though is that whatever a ‘United’ Ireland would look like, I think the ‘Protestants’ up north would have a far larger say in the running of the country than they do now. PR would assure that.

How they maintain Britishness/ dual citizenship, is something that the details would need to be teased out, but I have no doubt it could place them in a very beneficiary position that may actually be the envy of the rest of the UK. Who knows?
 
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Good questions.
I’ll have a good think about that, but perhaps let AWG and others,hopefully, answer first.

A quick thought though is that whatever a ‘United’ Ireland would look like, I think the ‘Protestants’ up north would have a far larger say in the running of the country than they do now. PR would assure that.

How they maintain Britishness/ dual citizenship, is something that the details would need to be teased out, but I have no doubt it could place them in a very beneficiary position that may actually be the envy of the rest of the UK. Who knows?
I know I’m wrong but my gut tells me , it could be done quicker and with more elegance than Scottish independence. That is assuming a majority in NI wanted it. How would they know they didn’t want it without painting a pretty detailed picture of what the solution could be? Who would ever have the credibility to lead a calm and reasoned conversation with the good folk of NI around that subject.
 

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