Irish Current Affairs

The DUP believe dinosaurs roamed the earth with people. That gay people are a threat to families. That they could prevent gay people in the province having the same legal rights as everyone else. That marching in a triumphalist manner was fitting by the government of a divided country.

But, they are good at getting bribes.

Swings and roundabouts.
 
Magicpole said:
The DUP believe dinosaurs roamed the earth with people. That gay people are a threat to families. That they could prevent gay people in the province having the same legal rights as everyone else. That marching in a triumphalist manner was fitting by the government of a divided country.

But, they are good at getting bribes.

Swings and roundabouts.
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I can't differentiate between any religion that believes any of the bunkum they believe in, dinosaurs roaming the earth at the time of humans is a little lie in the great lie of organised religion.
 
I believe Leo Varadkar and his partner ( soz don't know his name ) are visiting Mr and Mrs Pence? I mean wow - just wow. I bet every time they part the Pence's strip and burn all their clothes before insisting on being hosed down with bleach lol - must be about as comfortable an atmosphere as having Sajid Javid and Saddiq Khan meeting Donald and Melania.
 
bluethrunthru said:
I believe Leo Varadkar and his partner ( soz don't know his name ) are visiting Mr and Mrs Pence? I mean wow - just wow. I bet every time they part the Pence's strip and burn all their clothes before insisting on being hosed down with bleach lol - must be about as comfortable an atmosphere as having Sajid Javid and Saddiq Khan meeting Donald and Melania.
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I hope they left some tasteful art in their room.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
The Republic in general has become a much more liberal thinking society. We've progressed way beyond The North who once saw the influence of the Catholic Church on policy in government as a motivation and a stick to beat any hope of a United Ireland.
What is the feeling amongst the youth up North Alex?
We've still a long way to go but I do feel that in a lot of ways society down south has matured into the 21st century quicker than up North.
The only thing that I think would sway a traditional Unionist, is perhaps money in his pocket. If Union with the other 26 counties under a Dublin government is ever to happen though, I think it will still have to have a duel citizen arrangement of some sort to work.

What do you think. If you end up crashing out of the EU what will the feeling be. What do you think will happen to the DUP in an election?
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I completely agree that the South is much more progressive...or you have certainly progressed more as a society...but thats not to say there isnt potential in the North!

Well im 43, so not quite a youth myself, however i have a 22 year old and a 15 year old who are both interested and vocal in what they believe and think. My eldest is politically aware, shes the first generation of adults who have only ever experienced "peace" in the North...she was a baby when the GFA was signed and there was(is) such hope that they would never experience what we and our parents had to. She has grown up in a country with great potential and like most young adults is keen and motivated....but feels with Brexit and the possibility of a return to violence that many of her options are being taken away (rightly or wrongly)...but thats how they feel. Through no fault of their own, opportunities are being stripped....and that builds resentment.

When she was 15/16 she was involved in a local youth theatre/film academy and they had to arrange an event/festival. To give them guidance and advice a number of professionals were brought in to give them ideas on workshops they could arrange...photography, film-making, radio etc...and she was really excited to do it.
When i picked her up after i asked how it went and she just shrugged and said it was a bit boring and irrelevant to them...

...she said that all of the "professionals" advice focused on cross community work, dealing with the troubles etc. And then said the most profound thing...she/her friends actually didnt care about the troubles, nor about cross community working....not through bigotry or ignorance, but because it no longer mattered. They see the troubles as the past and something that has been eradicated...why would they be interested in that.
So now we have a generation of young adults who have only known peace...the threat of a return to the bad old days is just unthinkable.

IMO there is no longer the view that the South is run by the Church...in fact, personally the South is an attractive option...i wouldnt rule out a move in a few years, once the kids are both up and away.

Has opinion on a united Ireland changed or softened? Hard to say. Having grown up in a Unionist area, from a Unionist background the thought is no longer "scary". Personally i like the idea....some arent as opposed as they used to be whilst im sure those hardened loyalists are probably more entrenched and opposed to the idea.
I would think they thought of Nationalists and Republicans is still the same, but a deciding factor could be those Soft Nationalists....middle class, successful Catholics to whom being British or remaining with the UK suited them.

I cant call the result of a border poll in the North now....it would be close, but i still think the majority would be to remain with the UK (but this isnt taking Brexit into account). Depending on who Brexit pans out, things could change. There wont (shouldnt) be a poll until we Brexit and we see the repercussions of what happens in Scotland.
I agree that a dual citizenship/devolved government in the North would be the ideal scenario.

The DUP are a real quandary for me...perhaps im in an echo-chamber or bubble, but i dont know a single person who supports or votes for them, so i get frustrated to see how they win so many elections. Perhaps we just need a load of auld farts to die and stop voting....or lower the voting age to 16!!
As we have no government i really hope people are just getting more pissed off with the DUP and Sinn Fein and instead vote Green and Alliance (which is what happened recently)

If there is a general election, we will need to know which parties ours will align themselves with....as our vote is largely pointless in a GE :-/


I think ive gone off track, trying to type all this in work
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
I completely agree that the South is much more progressive...or you have certainly progressed more as a society...but thats not to say there isnt potential in the North!

Well im 43, so not quite a youth myself, however i have a 22 year old and a 15 year old who are both interested and vocal in what they believe and think. My eldest is politically aware, shes the first generation of adults who have only ever experienced "peace" in the North...she was a baby when the GFA was signed and there was(is) such hope that they would never experience what we and our parents had to. She has grown up in a country with great potential and like most young adults is keen and motivated....but feels with Brexit and the possibility of a return to violence that many of her options are being taken away (rightly or wrongly)...but thats how they feel. Through no fault of their own, opportunities are being stripped....and that builds resentment.

When she was 15/16 she was involved in a local youth theatre/film academy and they had to arrange an event/festival. To give them guidance and advice a number of professionals were brought in to give them ideas on workshops they could arrange...photography, film-making, radio etc...and she was really excited to do it.
When i picked her up after i asked how it went and she just shrugged and said it was a bit boring and irrelevant to them...

...she said that all of the "professionals" advice focused on cross community work, dealing with the troubles etc. And then said the most profound thing...she/her friends actually didnt care about the troubles, nor about cross community working....not through bigotry or ignorance, but because it no longer mattered. They see the troubles as the past and something that has been eradicated...why would they be interested in that.
So now we have a generation of young adults who have only known peace...the threat of a return to the bad old days is just unthinkable.

IMO there is no longer the view that the South is run by the Church...in fact, personally the South is an attractive option...i wouldnt rule out a move in a few years, once the kids are both up and away.

Has opinion on a united Ireland changed or softened? Hard to say. Having grown up in a Unionist area, from a Unionist background the thought is no longer "scary". Personally i like the idea....some arent as opposed as they used to be whilst im sure those hardened loyalists are probably more entrenched and opposed to the idea.
I would think they thought of Nationalists and Republicans is still the same, but a deciding factor could be those Soft Nationalists....middle class, successful Catholics to whom being British or remaining with the UK suited them.

I cant call the result of a border poll in the North now....it would be close, but i still think the majority would be to remain with the UK (but this isnt taking Brexit into account). Depending on who Brexit pans out, things could change. There wont (shouldnt) be a poll until we Brexit and we see the repercussions of what happens in Scotland.
I agree that a dual citizenship/devolved government in the North would be the ideal scenario.

The DUP are a real quandary for me...perhaps im in an echo-chamber or bubble, but i dont know a single person who supports or votes for them, so i get frustrated to see how they win so many elections. Perhaps we just need a load of auld farts to die and stop voting....or lower the voting age to 16!!
As we have no government i really hope people are just getting more pissed off with the DUP and Sinn Fein and instead vote Green and Alliance (which is what happened recently)

If there is a general election, we will need to know which parties ours will align themselves with....as our vote is largely pointless in a GE :-/


I think ive gone off track, trying to type all this in work
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No. Thanks for that Alex. Quite informative.
I do agree that currently I would still expect a majority in The North to vote to remain in the Union (UK), but then again the majority voted to stay in the Union (EU) so as you say the fallout of Brexit would have to be assessed.
Regarding church influence in the south, that's gone and it's not coming back.
I don't believe a border poll in the current climate would be a wise move. There would be a lot down south like me that think it would be too divisive and would need EU economical backing, because we couldn't afford it. But it would be hard to vote against a 32 county Ireland down here. There is still not just that ideology in some but a strong sense of guilt in others for having left those behind in 1923 that led to what was probably inevitable afterwards.
 
mancity2012_eamo said:
No. Thanks for that Alex. Quite informative.
I do agree that currently I would still expect a majority in The North to vote to remain in the Union (UK), but then again the majority voted to stay in the Union (EU) so as you say the fallout of Brexit would have to be assessed.
Regarding church influence in the south, that's gone and it's not coming back.
I don't believe a border poll in the current climate would be a wise move. There would be a lot down south like me that think it would be too divisive and would need EU economical backing, because we couldn't afford it. But it would be hard to vote against a 32 county Ireland down here. There is still not just that ideology in some but a strong sense of guilt in others for having left those behind in 1923 that led to what was probably inevitable afterwards.
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What i wanted to ask is, regardless of affordability, would you say the majority of the South want a 32 county Ireland?

Ive read a research paper suggesting a United Ireland would bring a lot of money and therefore very affordable....plus, i think support from the EU and the USA would make it worthwhile.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
What i wanted to ask is, regardless of affordability, would you say the majority of the South want a 32 county Ireland?

Ive read a research paper suggesting a United Ireland would bring a lot of money and therefore very affordable....plus, i think support from the EU and the USA would make it worthwhile.
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Most recent polling.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.in...-in-the-border-region-says-poll-38014834.html
Not quite a super majority but could easily pass that on the day. Don't think economics would be the primary factor either.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
What i wanted to ask is, regardless of affordability, would you say the majority of the South want a 32 county Ireland?

Ive read a research paper suggesting a United Ireland would bring a lot of money and therefore very affordable....plus, i think support from the EU and the USA would make it worthwhile.
Click to expand...
Well I would say yes and I did qualify the economical requirement of aid from the EU, which may well be forth coming.
It's the natural instinct I suppose and when you look at the economy of the whole of the island it does seem to be the most fluent way for the whole island to prosper.
You can't wish away 700 years of history though and if you want it to be permanent then I really do think that a lot of thought from both sides would have to go into how past transgressions could be come to terms with.
This is why I feel quite strongly about the disregard some show for the GFA making out like we hold it in some kind of sanctity based on little more than previous concepts amongst both communities. It's not it's a breathing space if nothing else whereby your kids can grow up knowing nothing but peace and hopefully a few generations of this can then go about deciding for themselves on non-bigoted non-sectarian (because let's face it Catholic/Protestant is redundant nowadays) purely logical grounds, for how they choose to go forward.

It needs time and I don't think immediately in the aftermath of Brexit would be a good time no matter what the outcome was.
The talk is always about nationalist threat of violence, but the initial threat never started there and the current loyalists element still wouldn't entertain any democratic vote that ended up with a United Ireland.

It's a tough one Alex. With or without a 32 county Ireland I hope your grandkids get to live in peace regardless.
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
What i wanted to ask is, regardless of affordability, would you say the majority of the South want a 32 county Ireland?

Ive read a research paper suggesting a United Ireland would bring a lot of money and therefore very affordable....plus, i think support from the EU and the USA would make it worthwhile.
Click to expand...
What do residents in the north think about a United Ireland? Is the north still overwhelmingly Unionist or is the split more even? It’s such a sensitive subject I guess even talking about it politically is steeped in risk. Can someone explain simply why the NI assembly isn’t sitting? Forgive my ignorance but I would like to understand more about the current situation.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
What do residents in the north think about a United Ireland? Is the north still overwhelmingly Unionist or is the split more even? It’s such a sensitive subject I guess even talking about it politically is steeped in risk. Can someone explain simply why the NI assembly isn’t sitting? Forgive my ignorance but I would like to understand more about the current situation.
Click to expand...

To over simplify, i believe there is still a majority to remain part of the UK. However, the old catholic/protestant alignment is more blurred...its not as simple as catholics wanted united ireland and protestants want to uk.

There were middle class catholics who preferred to be part of UK...largely for financial reasons, but times/economies are different and brexit has meant they now see a united ireland as more attractive...or at least less scary...

...similarly, there are protestants who also no longer see a united ireland as a scary option...perhaps a better alternative to brexit.

20 odd years of peace and a more secular youth have eroded the religious divide issue of a united ireland....its less "them and us". Its now being considered on economic and cultural terms as well....but also the brexit farce also shows how difficult a divorce settlement is.

Eamo and i have both said an all ireland government...with a devolved NI government is a likely option....i would add there would need to be a transitional period....perhaps even as long as a generation....to give things to work towards.

Our government isnt sitting because of pretty petty reasons....although for some, quite significant reasons.

It initially collapsed when martin mcguiness resigned due to the RHI scandal....and arlene fosters handling/involvement. We have to have a 1st and deputy 1st minister...but sinn fein refused to nominate a replacement for mcguinness so it collapsed.

Subsequent talks to get all back together have included sinn feins complaint about reduced funding for irish language issues as well as their use (abuse) of the "petition of concern" which blocked things like same sex marriage. The dup have their own concerns especially about legacy issues...how to deal with troubles of the past (you could include historical enquiries, bloody sunday etc).

So its not just about getting over differences of opinion about economic, health, education issues....its fundamental, cultural differences of the 2 largest parties here....i think they are as close as 28/27 seats each.


I love answering questions about NI, i would like people to know more from "the man on the street"....but im just one bloke. There will be others from NI on here who probably/will disagree.
 
Sorry...cant edit that post on my phone.....theres a bit that should read sinn feins problem with the DUPs use(abuse) of the petition of concern
 
AlexWilliamsGloves said:
To over simplify, i believe there is still a majority to remain part of the UK. However, the old catholic/protestant alignment is more blurred...its not as simple as catholics wanted united ireland and protestants want to uk.

There were middle class catholics who preferred to be part of UK...largely for financial reasons, but times/economies are different and brexit has meant they now see a united ireland as more attractive...or at least less scary...

...similarly, there are protestants who also no longer see a united ireland as a scary option...perhaps a better alternative to brexit.

20 odd years of peace and a more secular youth have eroded the religious divide issue of a united ireland....its less "them and us". Its now being considered on economic and cultural terms as well....but also the brexit farce also shows how difficult a divorce settlement is.

Eamo and i have both said an all ireland government...with a devolved NI government is a likely option....i would add there would need to be a transitional period....perhaps even as long as a generation....to give things to work towards.

Our government isnt sitting because of pretty petty reasons....although for some, quite significant reasons.

It initially collapsed when martin mcguiness resigned due to the RHI scandal....and arlene fosters handling/involvement. We have to have a 1st and deputy 1st minister...but sinn fein refused to nominate a replacement for mcguinness so it collapsed.

Subsequent talks to get all back together have included sinn feins complaint about reduced funding for irish language issues as well as their use (abuse) of the "petition of concern" which blocked things like same sex marriage. The dup have their own concerns especially about legacy issues...how to deal with troubles of the past (you could include historical enquiries, bloody sunday etc).

So its not just about getting over differences of opinion about economic, health, education issues....its fundamental, cultural differences of the 2 largest parties here....i think they are as close as 28/27 seats each.


I love answering questions about NI, i would like people to know more from "the man on the street"....but im just one bloke. There will be others from NI on here who probably/will disagree.
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Thanks. I really appreciate you taking the trouble to educate me. I need to broaden my reading as I haven't really kept up with NI politics since the GFA and know too little about Irish politics, particularly the period since the financial crash. This is an interesting thread and I hope to contribute to it.
 
Bomb Ireland.

I'm not sure which bit yet but I'm sure that the solution to this is some form of bombing.
 
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