Irish leading the way again

mackenzie said:
I really hope so. The Sinn Feinn suggestion re a unified Ireland really spooked me if I'm honest. I don't want to go back to those dark and horrible times.
Trusting that nobody else does either :-(
Click to expand...

Dark and horrible times? Are you talking about the 1700s in Ireland before the north existed?
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Laughable response.



One thing's for sure, I was right about your virtue signalling. Utter weakling.

http://islamqa.info/en/38622

Don't really know where to start, but I'll just cite this one paragraph from the above Q&A site citing the very most doctrines of Islam, and you tell me that drawing a link between Islam and homophobia is borne out of racism ('racism' against a religion - laughable) with no evidential basis:

The Sahaabah were unanimously agreed on the execution of homosexuals, but they differed as to how they were to be executed. Some of them were of the view that they should be burned with fire, which was the view of ‘Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) and also of Abu Bakr (may Allaah be pleased with him), as we shall see below. And some of them thought that they should be thrown down from a high place then have stones thrown at them. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him).



What's happened before is that I've had tedious and moronic exchanges with weaklings like yourself who refuse to acknowledge beliefs can have real world consequences - whether they're superstitious, or religious. Whether they involve Islam or not.

In the past I have said Islam is not an irrelevant consideration in terrorism done in its name, only people like you seem to believe it is.

I'm and atheist and I've spoken with Muslims who recognise this, and see it as an issue. It's only jokers like you who refuse to, and reel out all the ad hominem attacks you can muster for anyone who dares to acknowledge it, as I said: pathetic.



So you're just outright dismissing the relevance of religion in this homophobia, in spite of many of those countries having nothing in common besides sharing a religion, many not even sharing the same continent?

Once more: laughable.

I'm not interested in fully deconstructing your whataboutisms and flawed arguments when it comes to this specific topic. This thread was about Islam if you hadn't noticed, people like you patently have an inherent need to drag this off topic because it makes you uncomfortable.

If you hadn't noticed I acknowledged that there are many differing motives for homophobia across the world, and there are many differing nations and cultures, and religions, culpable to greater or lesser extents. I acknowledge that. And what's more, to touch upon it briefly, at risk of playing your game, something that is central to Russia's rise in homophobia among the general populace Is the Russian state actively endorsing and encouraging it with the Russian Orthodox church being pivotal in that campaign.

But, once more, what I was at pains to point out, was that in focusing on this specific problem re Islam, I'm not discounting the others, I just refuse to see you utilise them to drag this off topic and neglect this issue. Fairly straightforward.

You can call me racist all you want, I don't think you're particularly bright, frankly. If the mods believed I was racist I wouldn't be here.

But please continue your ad hominem attacks and virtue signalling if it allows you to feel good about yourself while glossing over serious homophobia.
Click to expand...

Another pitiful offering.

Let's start with this. In my first post in this thread I criticised your logic but there was no criticism of you personally at all. In the first of your posts in this thread that responded to me, however, you said (a) "Well done for spectacularly missing the point, borne out of a desire to virtue signal", (b) "there are other cultures and nations which have homophobia problems, some for different reasons, some similar, but they only serve as a red herring in this case as they're not relevant to the topic at hand. They only serve as a whataboutism for people like you who are uncomfortable with this specific topic" and (c) "you might want to cite whataboutisms, or cite a problem B to enable the overlooking of this problem A, but it doesn't wash for the rest of us." So having weighed in with a series of personal attacks, you start crying when somebody returns the favour. How laughably predictable. Over the course of your replies to me you have attempted to insult me as not very bright, weakling, virtue signalling and pathetic. Despite this, in the post I have quoted above you bleat about an ad hominem attack. You utter fucking hypocrite.

Now let's turn to what racism actually is. You said, above, "racism' against a religion - laughable." More bullshit from you. Racism is an abbreviated way of referring to racial discrimination. The UN has defined racial discrimination as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin". An ethnic group is (from wiki) "a category of people who identify with each other based on common language, ancestral, social, cultural, or national experiences... Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance." So yes, of course conduct discriminating against one religion in particular (quite apart from the fact that the majority of its adherents have different colour skin to yours) is a form of racism. How predictable that a racist should persuade himself that the particular form of discrimination he practises is not actually racism.

Next, you ask "you're just outright dismissing the relevance of religion in this homophobia, in spite of many of those countries having nothing in common besides sharing a religion, many not even sharing the same continent?"

No. As you seem to be having difficulty with the meaning that is conveyed by the words that are used, I will have another go. The list that you published in your first post shows attitudes in a number of countries held by Muslims within that country towards same sex relationships. There is an assumption underpinning your post that the underlying reason, for instance, that about 90% of Russian Muslims are homophobic is their religion, and not because homophobic attitudes are prevalent in Russian society generally. What I objected to was your ready willingness to make the link not based on evidence but on your own worldview that Islam is a bad thing. The link may or may not be there but it is not borne out by the evidence you cited in your first post. It was to this unremarkable observation, challenging the conclusion you reached on the basis of the flimsy evidence presented, that you took such exception. And then you bleat on about 'spectacularly missing the point.' You are a parody even of yourself.

Finally, you say "You can call me racist all you want, I don't think you're particularly bright, frankly. If the mods believed I was racist I wouldn't be here."

Nice try, sunshine, but that one doesn't work either. I've called you out as a racist and the mods haven't pulled me up about it. So that one is as broad as it's long: if the mods thought you weren't a racist they would have pulled me up about it, wouldn't they?

So, this pathetic, not very bright, virtue signalling weakling is again calling you out as a racist. That is because in this and other threads you have repeatedly made posts that have racist undertones, and I'm calling you out on it. Like I said in my last post, take it to the mods if you have an issue with being called a racist. Probably 80% of the forum will gloss over this exchange as such clashes can be very tedious. The other 20% is watching you to see what sort of a coward you are.
 
Chris in London said:
Another pitiful offering.

Let's start with this. In my first post in this thread I criticised your logic but there was no criticism of you personally at all. In the first of your posts in this thread that responded to me, however, you said (a) "Well done for spectacularly missing the point, borne out of a desire to virtue signal", (b) "there are other cultures and nations which have homophobia problems, some for different reasons, some similar, but they only serve as a red herring in this case as they're not relevant to the topic at hand. They only serve as a whataboutism for people like you who are uncomfortable with this specific topic" and (c) "you might want to cite whataboutisms, or cite a problem B to enable the overlooking of this problem A, but it doesn't wash for the rest of us." So having weighed in with a series of personal attacks, you start crying when somebody returns the favour. How laughably predictable. Over the course of your replies to me you have attempted to insult me as not very bright, weakling, virtue signalling and pathetic. Despite this, in the post I have quoted above you bleat about an ad hominem attack. You utter fucking hypocrite.

Now let's turn to what racism actually is. You said, above, "racism' against a religion - laughable." More bullshit from you. Racism is an abbreviated way of referring to racial discrimination. The UN has defined racial discrimination as "any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin". An ethnic group is (from wiki) "a category of people who identify with each other based on common language, ancestral, social, cultural, or national experiences... Membership of an ethnic group tends to be defined by a shared cultural heritage, ancestry, origin myth, history, homeland, language or dialect, symbolic systems such as religion, mythology and ritual, cuisine, dressing style, art, and physical appearance." So yes, of course conduct discriminating against one religion in particular (quite apart from the fact that the majority of its adherents have different colour skin to yours) is a form of racism. How predictable that a racist should persuade himself that the particular form of discrimination he practises is not actually racism.

Next, you ask "you're just outright dismissing the relevance of religion in this homophobia, in spite of many of those countries having nothing in common besides sharing a religion, many not even sharing the same continent?"

No. As you seem to be having difficulty with the meaning that is conveyed by the words that are used, I will have another go. The list that you published in your first post shows attitudes in a number of countries held by Muslims within that country towards same sex relationships. There is an assumption underpinning your post that the underlying reason, for instance, that about 90% of Russian Muslims are homophobic is their religion, and not because homophobic attitudes are prevalent in Russian society generally. What I objected to was your ready willingness to make the link not based on evidence but on your own worldview that Islam is a bad thing. The link may or may not be there but it is not borne out by the evidence you cited in your first post. It was to this unremarkable observation, challenging the conclusion you reached on the basis of the flimsy evidence presented, that you took such exception. And then you bleat on about 'spectacularly missing the point.' You are a parody even of yourself.

Finally, you say "You can call me racist all you want, I don't think you're particularly bright, frankly. If the mods believed I was racist I wouldn't be here."

Nice try, sunshine, but that one doesn't work either. I've called you out as a racist and the mods haven't pulled me up about it. So that one is as broad as it's long: if the mods thought you weren't a racist they would have pulled me up about it, wouldn't they?

So, this pathetic, not very bright, virtue signalling weakling is again calling you out as a racist. That is because in this and other threads you have repeatedly made posts that have racist undertones, and I'm calling you out on it. Like I said in my last post, take it to the mods if you have an issue with being called a racist. Probably 80% of the forum will gloss over this exchange as such clashes can be very tedious. The other 20% is watching you to see what sort of a coward you are.
Click to expand...

Virtue! Virtue! Virtue!

Now that is a pathetic response, contemptible frankly.

The sheer straw clutching lengths you've gone to to try and justify that barb re the definition of racism is really quite something. Would be laughable if it wasn't so loathsome.

Even if I were to grant you that definition (which I don't), reached via a redefinition of what racism is and some mental gymnastics, nothing I've written could even constitute discrimination against Islam (if you want to get onto the definition of discrimination then be sure to let me know).

Here's the actual dictionary definition of racism, seeing as you need help:

racism
ˈreɪsɪz(ə)m/
noun
  1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
    "theories of racism"
    • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
      "a programme to combat racism"
      synonyms: racial discrimination, racialism, racial prejudice/bigotry, xenophobia, chauvinism, bigotry, bias, intolerance;More
Click to expand...

Nothing I have ever written on this forum could constitute racism, and nothing I ever will write in this forum will. I don't believe in racial superiority or racial inferiority, and I don't hate or dislike other human beings on the basis of their race. And to reiterate, this discussion has nothing to do with race. We're discussing religion, you're the one who's deliberately dragged race into this discussion as a calculated attempt to weaponise it as an insult against me.

That, is frankly utterly deplorable, and I can't tell you how much I resent that. Genuinely beneath contempt.

I've been very clear in my position on this in the past, my motives for expressing these criticisms are clear and I've sought to make them as such. I'm an atheist, in fact, in truth I'm more of an anti-theist. I see organised religion as the figurative ball and chain holding back humanity. Where possible, and relevant, I try to demonstrate the harmful ideas that religion propagates, the harm it brings society and the manner in which it negatively impacts peoples' lives.

Now, I've done that in this thread as it was relevant to the topic. The topic is homosexuality and Islam.

I cite the international gold standard of polling data, Pew polls, as evidence to demonstrate some troubling attitudes common among Muslims (adherents of Islam) internationally - you dismiss it outright as there is no control group.

I cite another poll, and the entire survey from ICM, which shows more than half of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal, while the control of the general population shows a huge discrepancy between the two, with a figure of 5%. You then dismissed the relevance of Islam to that discrepancy, of those beliefs among British Muslims, and pinned it entirely on cultural and societal norms among the countries those Muslims, or their families before them, or even those before them, emigrated from - in spite of the fact that in your recent straw clutching in an attempt to justify your 'racism' insult, you considered religion congruent to culture and society under the umbrella of ethnic origin.

Interesting cognitive dissonance.

You then entirely ignored the doctrine of the faith itself when cited, in which homosexuality is clearly considered a crime.

Now, what are your motives for posting the way you have?

I noticed that you didn't describe me as a Russophobe or 'racist' against Russian Orthodox Christians for holding the Russian Orthadox Church partly culpable in the nation's homophobia.

Your motives are not sincere. You're disingenuous in the extreme, that much is clear. You know people on this forum personally, and your personal diatribe towards me is clearly borne out of your desire to virtue signal on what represents a social platform for you.

Nothing that I've written here is racist, and nothing that I've written in the past on this topic has been.

I have have offered similar criticisms of Islam to a Muslim friend (albeit increasingly non practising), and he takes them less personally than you do.

In fact, I'm absolutely certain that if he were a blue and were to post in this sub, and discuss this topic, I have no doubt whatsoever that you'd be quick to dismiss him as a racist - oblivious to the fact that his critical views were coming from the perspective of a Muslim of Bangladeshi descent.

Ultimately though, I don't care if you wish to call me a racist, because I don't respect you, or your opinion. And I certainly don't respect your motives for saying what you have, you're incredibly disingenuous, in the extreme.

You're motivated by a desire to collect social brownie points from people you know on this sub, that's why you've derailed this from a discussion about a fairly straightforward and sincere argument, to one about the person presenting it.

In truth, you're a virtue signalling, intellectual weakling; a mental midget. Perhaps you should take a glance in the mirror before you have the gall to describe anyone else as a coward?

Truth be told though, I have no interest in personal squabbles, but I will acknowledge that I did engage in the ad hominems initially, that's the single thing I will grant you. However, I know where this goes, and I was right to assume the personal angle you were coming from, you had no real desire to play the ball, you went after the man - as you've since proven was your intent.

I'm not interested in continuing this discussion any further, but if you're at all willing to challenge your preconceptions on this topic, and what it means to speak critically on it, then please watch this presentation:



Otherwise, keep describing people bold enough to go where you don't dare tread as racist in what is evidently merely an ego stroking exercise for yourself. I'm not going to continue to try and justify my motives or bat away accusations of racism, as to do so any further is to just grant them a credence they don't deserve.

People can judge for themselves, on what is posted and the intent, as they will with yourself. I'm content in that sense.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Virtue! Virtue! Virtue!

Now that is a pathetic response, contemptible frankly.

The sheer straw clutching lengths you've gone to to try and justify that barb re the definition of racism is really quite something. Would be laughable if it wasn't so loathsome.

Even if I were to grant you that definition (which I don't), reached via a redefinition of what racism is and some mental gymnastics, nothing I've written could even constitute discrimination against Islam (if you want to get onto the definition of discrimination then be sure to let me know).

Here's the actual dictionary definition of racism, seeing as you need help:



Nothing I have ever written on this forum could constitute racism, and nothing I ever will write in this forum will. I don't believe in racial superiority or racial inferiority, and I don't hate or dislike other human beings on the basis of their race. And to reiterate, this discussion has nothing to do with race. We're discussing religion, you're the one who's deliberately dragged race into this discussion as a calculated attempt to weaponise it as an insult against me.

That, is frankly utterly deplorable, and I can't tell you how much I resent that. Genuinely beneath contempt.

I've been very clear in my position on this in the past, my motives for expressing these criticisms are clear and I've sought to make them as such. I'm an atheist, in fact, in truth I'm more of an anti-theist. I see organised religion as the figurative ball and chain holding back humanity. Where possible, and relevant, I try to demonstrate the harmful ideas that religion propagates, the harm it brings society and the manner in which it negatively impacts peoples' lives.

Now, I've done that in this thread as it was relevant to the topic. The topic is homosexuality and Islam.

I cite the international gold standard of polling data, Pew polls, as evidence to demonstrate some troubling attitudes common among Muslims (adherents of Islam) internationally - you dismiss it outright as there is no control group.

I cite another poll, and the entire survey from ICM, which shows more than half of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal, while the control of the general population shows a huge discrepancy between the two, with a figure of 5%. You then dismissed the relevance of Islam to that discrepancy, of those beliefs among British Muslims, and pinned it entirely on cultural and societal norms among the countries those Muslims, or their families before them, or even those before them, emigrated from - in spite of the fact that in your recent straw clutching in an attempt to justify your 'racism' insult, you considered religion congruent to culture and society under the umbrella of ethnic origin.

Interesting cognitive dissonance.

You then entirely ignored the doctrine of the faith itself when cited, in which homosexuality is clearly considered a crime.

Now, what are your motives for posting the way you have?

I noticed that you didn't describe me as a Russophobe or 'racist' against Russian Orthodox Christians for holding the Russian Orthadox Church partly culpable in the nation's homophobia.

Your motives are not sincere. You're disingenuous in the extreme, that much is clear. You know people on this forum personally, and your personal diatribe towards me is clearly borne out of your desire to virtue signal on what represents a social platform for you.

Nothing that I've written here is racist, and nothing that I've written in the past on this topic has been.

I have have offered similar criticisms of Islam to a Muslim friend (albeit increasingly non practising), and he takes them less personally than you do.

In fact, I'm absolutely certain that if he were a blue and were to post in this sub, and discuss this topic, I have no doubt whatsoever that you'd be quick to dismiss him as a racist - oblivious to the fact that his critical views were coming from the perspective of a Muslim of Bangladeshi descent.

Ultimately though, I don't care if you wish to call me a racist, because I don't respect you, or your opinion. And I certainly don't respect your motives for saying what you have, you're incredibly disingenuous, in the extreme.

You're motivated by a desire to collect social brownie points from people you know on this sub, that's why you've derailed this from a discussion about a fairly straightforward and sincere argument, to one about the person presenting it.

In truth, you're a virtue signalling, intellectual weakling; a mental midget. Perhaps you should take a glance in the mirror before you have the gall to describe anyone else as a coward?

Truth be told though, I have no interest in personal squabbles, but I will acknowledge that I did engage in the ad hominems initially, that's the single thing I will grant you. However, I know where this goes, and I was right to assume the personal angle you were coming from, you had no real desire to play the ball, you went after the man - as you've since proven was your intent.

I'm not interested in continuing this discussion any further, but if you're at all willing to challenge your preconceptions on this topic, and what it means to speak critically on it, then please watch this presentation:



Otherwise, keep describing people bold enough to go where you don't dare tread as racist in what is evidently merely an ego stroking exercise for yourself. I'm not going to continue to try and justify my motives or bat away accusations of racism, as to do so any further is to just grant them a credence they don't deserve.

People can judge for themselves, on what is posted and the intent, as they will with yourself. I'm content in that sense.
Click to expand...

Go and get laid.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Virtue! Virtue! Virtue!

Now that is a pathetic response, contemptible frankly.

The sheer straw clutching lengths you've gone to to try and justify that barb re the definition of racism is really quite something. Would be laughable if it wasn't so loathsome.

Even if I were to grant you that definition (which I don't), reached via a redefinition of what racism is and some mental gymnastics, nothing I've written could even constitute discrimination against Islam (if you want to get onto the definition of discrimination then be sure to let me know).

Here's the actual dictionary definition of racism, seeing as you need help:



Nothing I have ever written on this forum could constitute racism, and nothing I ever will write in this forum will. I don't believe in racial superiority or racial inferiority, and I don't hate or dislike other human beings on the basis of their race. And to reiterate, this discussion has nothing to do with race. We're discussing religion, you're the one who's deliberately dragged race into this discussion as a calculated attempt to weaponise it as an insult against me.

That, is frankly utterly deplorable, and I can't tell you how much I resent that. Genuinely beneath contempt.

I've been very clear in my position on this in the past, my motives for expressing these criticisms are clear and I've sought to make them as such. I'm an atheist, in fact, in truth I'm more of an anti-theist. I see organised religion as the figurative ball and chain holding back humanity. Where possible, and relevant, I try to demonstrate the harmful ideas that religion propagates, the harm it brings society and the manner in which it negatively impacts peoples' lives.

Now, I've done that in this thread as it was relevant to the topic. The topic is homosexuality and Islam.

I cite the international gold standard of polling data, Pew polls, as evidence to demonstrate some troubling attitudes common among Muslims (adherents of Islam) internationally - you dismiss it outright as there is no control group.

I cite another poll, and the entire survey from ICM, which shows more than half of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal, while the control of the general population shows a huge discrepancy between the two, with a figure of 5%. You then dismissed the relevance of Islam to that discrepancy, of those beliefs among British Muslims, and pinned it entirely on cultural and societal norms among the countries those Muslims, or their families before them, or even those before them, emigrated from - in spite of the fact that in your recent straw clutching in an attempt to justify your 'racism' insult, you considered religion congruent to culture and society under the umbrella of ethnic origin.

Interesting cognitive dissonance.

You then entirely ignored the doctrine of the faith itself when cited, in which homosexuality is clearly considered a crime.

Now, what are your motives for posting the way you have?

I noticed that you didn't describe me as a Russophobe or 'racist' against Russian Orthodox Christians for holding the Russian Orthadox Church partly culpable in the nation's homophobia.

Your motives are not sincere. You're disingenuous in the extreme, that much is clear. You know people on this forum personally, and your personal diatribe towards me is clearly borne out of your desire to virtue signal on what represents a social platform for you.

Nothing that I've written here is racist, and nothing that I've written in the past on this topic has been.

I have have offered similar criticisms of Islam to a Muslim friend (albeit increasingly non practising), and he takes them less personally than you do.

In fact, I'm absolutely certain that if he were a blue and were to post in this sub, and discuss this topic, I have no doubt whatsoever that you'd be quick to dismiss him as a racist - oblivious to the fact that his critical views were coming from the perspective of a Muslim of Bangladeshi descent.

Ultimately though, I don't care if you wish to call me a racist, because I don't respect you, or your opinion. And I certainly don't respect your motives for saying what you have, you're incredibly disingenuous, in the extreme.

You're motivated by a desire to collect social brownie points from people you know on this sub, that's why you've derailed this from a discussion about a fairly straightforward and sincere argument, to one about the person presenting it.

In truth, you're a virtue signalling, intellectual weakling; a mental midget. Perhaps you should take a glance in the mirror before you have the gall to describe anyone else as a coward?

Truth be told though, I have no interest in personal squabbles, but I will acknowledge that I did engage in the ad hominems initially, that's the single thing I will grant you. However, I know where this goes, and I was right to assume the personal angle you were coming from, you had no real desire to play the ball, you went after the man - as you've since proven was your intent.

I'm not interested in continuing this discussion any further, but if you're at all willing to challenge your preconceptions on this topic, and what it means to speak critically on it, then please watch this presentation:



Otherwise, keep describing people bold enough to go where you don't dare tread as racist in what is evidently merely an ego stroking exercise for yourself. I'm not going to continue to try and justify my motives or bat away accusations of racism, as to do so any further is to just grant them a credence they don't deserve.

People can judge for themselves, on what is posted and the intent, as they will with yourself. I'm content in that sense.
Click to expand...


I doff my hat.

Your words will resonate with those opposed to religion in all but a few forms. I don't judge Muslims, I judge Islam. During the eighties, I didn't judge the Irish, I judged the christian church in all it's guises.

Stonehenge a relic some weird belief system...churches and mosques will be the same.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
Virtue! Virtue! Virtue!

Now that is a pathetic response, contemptible frankly.

The sheer straw clutching lengths you've gone to to try and justify that barb re the definition of racism is really quite something. Would be laughable if it wasn't so loathsome.

Even if I were to grant you that definition (which I don't), reached via a redefinition of what racism is and some mental gymnastics, nothing I've written could even constitute discrimination against Islam (if you want to get onto the definition of discrimination then be sure to let me know).

Here's the actual dictionary definition of racism, seeing as you need help:



Nothing I have ever written on this forum could constitute racism, and nothing I ever will write in this forum will. I don't believe in racial superiority or racial inferiority, and I don't hate or dislike other human beings on the basis of their race. And to reiterate, this discussion has nothing to do with race. We're discussing religion, you're the one who's deliberately dragged race into this discussion as a calculated attempt to weaponise it as an insult against me.

That, is frankly utterly deplorable, and I can't tell you how much I resent that. Genuinely beneath contempt.

I've been very clear in my position on this in the past, my motives for expressing these criticisms are clear and I've sought to make them as such. I'm an atheist, in fact, in truth I'm more of an anti-theist. I see organised religion as the figurative ball and chain holding back humanity. Where possible, and relevant, I try to demonstrate the harmful ideas that religion propagates, the harm it brings society and the manner in which it negatively impacts peoples' lives.

Now, I've done that in this thread as it was relevant to the topic. The topic is homosexuality and Islam.

I cite the international gold standard of polling data, Pew polls, as evidence to demonstrate some troubling attitudes common among Muslims (adherents of Islam) internationally - you dismiss it outright as there is no control group.

I cite another poll, and the entire survey from ICM, which shows more than half of British Muslims believe homosexuality should be illegal, while the control of the general population shows a huge discrepancy between the two, with a figure of 5%. You then dismissed the relevance of Islam to that discrepancy, of those beliefs among British Muslims, and pinned it entirely on cultural and societal norms among the countries those Muslims, or their families before them, or even those before them, emigrated from - in spite of the fact that in your recent straw clutching in an attempt to justify your 'racism' insult, you considered religion congruent to culture and society under the umbrella of ethnic origin.

Interesting cognitive dissonance.

You then entirely ignored the doctrine of the faith itself when cited, in which homosexuality is clearly considered a crime.

Now, what are your motives for posting the way you have?

I noticed that you didn't describe me as a Russophobe or 'racist' against Russian Orthodox Christians for holding the Russian Orthadox Church partly culpable in the nation's homophobia.

Your motives are not sincere. You're disingenuous in the extreme, that much is clear. You know people on this forum personally, and your personal diatribe towards me is clearly borne out of your desire to virtue signal on what represents a social platform for you.

Nothing that I've written here is racist, and nothing that I've written in the past on this topic has been.

I have have offered similar criticisms of Islam to a Muslim friend (albeit increasingly non practising), and he takes them less personally than you do.

In fact, I'm absolutely certain that if he were a blue and were to post in this sub, and discuss this topic, I have no doubt whatsoever that you'd be quick to dismiss him as a racist - oblivious to the fact that his critical views were coming from the perspective of a Muslim of Bangladeshi descent.

Ultimately though, I don't care if you wish to call me a racist, because I don't respect you, or your opinion. And I certainly don't respect your motives for saying what you have, you're incredibly disingenuous, in the extreme.

You're motivated by a desire to collect social brownie points from people you know on this sub, that's why you've derailed this from a discussion about a fairly straightforward and sincere argument, to one about the person presenting it.

In truth, you're a virtue signalling, intellectual weakling; a mental midget. Perhaps you should take a glance in the mirror before you have the gall to describe anyone else as a coward?

Truth be told though, I have no interest in personal squabbles, but I will acknowledge that I did engage in the ad hominems initially, that's the single thing I will grant you. However, I know where this goes, and I was right to assume the personal angle you were coming from, you had no real desire to play the ball, you went after the man - as you've since proven was your intent.

I'm not interested in continuing this discussion any further, but if you're at all willing to challenge your preconceptions on this topic, and what it means to speak critically on it, then please watch this presentation:



Otherwise, keep describing people bold enough to go where you don't dare tread as racist in what is evidently merely an ego stroking exercise for yourself. I'm not going to continue to try and justify my motives or bat away accusations of racism, as to do so any further is to just grant them a credence they don't deserve.

People can judge for themselves, on what is posted and the intent, as they will with yourself. I'm content in that sense.
Click to expand...

Machiavelli said:
Go and get laid.
Click to expand...

Lol.

Sometimes four words say more than a thousand.
 
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