Is football corrupt?

[CBlue]

The way I see video tech working, is based on the fact we can replay any incident a few seconds after it happens. Keep the game as it is, give managers a set number of "challenges", say 2 each for the whole game. Ref makes decisions, 4th official verifies it, manager can challenge in real time. Would only work at the top level where it is all televised, one excuse for holding up this tech is that it won't work at grassroots...

Won't happen, but would like it to.

A ref makes a decision by not blowing his whistle for an incident - how does a manager then stop the game for a challenge? How long can he go back & appeal a decision? What happens if multiple incidents happen from the time the first incident happened? What happens to the time already played if you have to go back due to a succesful appeal? How far down the league structure will this apply - there are no franchises.

 

[ManCitizens.]

Rugby, cricket, tennis, blah blah blah...
These are all games that are start/stop. Football is continuous - in theory a game can be played with 2 stoppages in 90 minutes - half time & full time. Why would a ref stop the game to ask someone to overrule his opinion on a decision he didn't give? Take the Torres sending off against the rags - despite the VR from all angles, there are still differences of opinion.

Football flows no more or less than rugby league. Stoppages at corners, free kicks, goal kicks (I count up to 40 seconds for goal kick sometimes from time wasting teams, Stoke took 1min and 10seconds once), stoppages for injuries can take anything from one minute to seven minutes. Then you have the surrounding the ref and swearing at him, or squaring up the the opposition saying you'll knock them out and actually do nowt happens all the time in football taking anything up to two minutes at a time.

Rugby league is a fast flowing sport.

...and they only have a review to determine if a try is scored or the decision if a try isn't scored. This is a natural stop in play. This isn't the case in football. It's either a goal or no goal - the game doesn't stop unless it is declared a goal. A subtle but extremely important difference.
What are you reviewing when a ball goes out for a goal kick? What are you reviewing when a player goes down injured? What are you reviewing when the players surround the ref? Is the game still going on? Wouldn't you surrounding the ref while the game continues a little dangerous? They are obviously surrounding him because they don't agree with his opninion - why would he then defer his opinion to a VR? He obviously saw an incident & deemed it not an offence - why would he ask someone else's opinion? Who's opinion would he seek? Who appoints this other opinion maker, or referee? Is he faceless? Can he make decisions knowing that the ref is getting all the shit for it? Has this other referee taken a bribe? Have both refs taken a bribe & are in on the corruption?

See the NFL.

 

[1972Bramhall_Blue]

It wouldnt surprise me. There has been corruption in European football since its beginnings in the 50’s and there was faously that UEFA Cup semi in the 80’s where the referee was bribed to make sure Forrest went out, since then much, much more money has come into the game, much of it from some very dubious sources so it has to be a real possibility. The trouble is if the story ever comes out it comes out at least a decade after the event, when it’s too late to make a difference. I can’t see how the referee tonight, and the linesmen, and the officials behind the goal could miss both penalties *and* disallow the goal just through incompetence and the refs body language at full time did not look that of an honest man confident in his decisions, but there is no evidence at all for corruption and I suspect, even if the referee was bought and paid for it will only emerge (if ever) in ten years time.

 

[CBlue]

Football flows no more or less than rugby league. Stoppages at corners, free kicks, goal kicks (I count up to 40 seconds for goal kick sometimes from time wasting teams, Stoke took 1min and 10seconds once), stoppages for injuries can take anything from one minute to seven minutes. Then you have the surrounding the ref and swearing at him, or squaring up the the opposition saying you'll knock them out and actually do nowt happens all the time in football taking anything up to two minutes at a time.

Rugby league is a fast flowing sport.

...and they only have a review to determine if a try is scored or the decision if a try isn't scored. This is a natural stop in play. This isn't the case in football. It's either a goal or no goal - the game doesn't stop unless it is declared a goal. A subtle but extremely important difference.
What are you reviewing when a ball goes out for a goal kick? What are you reviewing when a player goes down injured? What are you reviewing when the players surround the ref? Is the game still going on? Wouldn't you surrounding the ref while the game continues a little dangerous? They are obviously surrounding him because they don't agree with his opninion - why would he then defer his opinion to a VR? He obviously saw an incident & deemed it not an offence - why would he ask someone else's opinion? Who's opinion would he seek? Who appoints this other opinion maker, or referee? Is he faceless? Can he make decisions knowing that the ref is getting all the shit for it? Has this other referee taken a bribe? Have both refs taken a bribe & are in on the corruption?

See the NFL.

Proof positive that it could never work in football. The NFL is probably the worst example that you could use to support an argument for VR in football. The game stops for every play. It takes 3 - 4 hours to play due to all the stoppages. The game itself is only 60 minutes long. Also, I'd point you to the Seahawks/Packers game earlier this season - VR doesn't work!!

 

[ManCitizens.]

...and they only have a review to determine if a try is scored or the decision if a try isn't scored. This is a natural stop in play. This isn't the case in football. It's either a goal or no goal - the game doesn't stop unless it is declared a goal. A subtle but extremely important difference.
What are you reviewing when a ball goes out for a goal kick? What are you reviewing when a player goes down injured? What are you reviewing when the players surround the ref? Is the game still going on? Wouldn't you surrounding the ref while the game continues a little dangerous? They are obviously surrounding him because they don't agree with his opninion - why would he then defer his opinion to a VR? He obviously saw an incident & deemed it not an offence - why would he ask someone else's opinion? Who's opinion would he seek? Who appoints this other opinion maker, or referee? Is he faceless? Can he make decisions knowing that the ref is getting all the shit for it? Has this other referee taken a bribe? Have both refs taken a bribe & are in on the corruption?

See the NFL.

Proof positive that it could never work in football. The NFL is probably the worst example that you could use to support an argument for VR in football. The game stops for every play. It takes 3 - 4 hours to play due to all the stoppages. The game itself is only 60 minutes long. Also, I'd point you to the Seahawks/Packers game earlier this season - VR doesn't work!!

Ok tennis.

 

[CBlue]

It wouldnt surprise me. There has been corruption in European football since its beginnings in the 50’s and there was faously that UEFA Cup semi in the 80’s where the referee was bribed to make sure Forrest went out, since then much, much more money has come into the game, much of it from some very dubious sources so it has to be a real possibility. The trouble is if the story ever comes out it comes out at least a decade after the event, when it’s too late to make a difference. I can’t see how the referee tonight, and the linesmen, and the officials behind the goal could miss both penalties *and* disallow the goal just through incompetence and the refs body language at full time did not look that of an honest man confident in his decisions, but there is no evidence at all for corruption and I suspect, even if the referee was bought and paid for it will only emerge (if ever) in ten years time.

Anderlecht were the team - there is massive corruption in the Belgian leagues. You've also got Marseille & Juve - previous winners of the CL!!

 

[CBlue]

See the NFL.

Proof positive that it could never work in football. The NFL is probably the worst example that you could use to support an argument for VR in football. The game stops for every play. It takes 3 - 4 hours to play due to all the stoppages. The game itself is only 60 minutes long. Also, I'd point you to the Seahawks/Packers game earlier this season - VR doesn't work!!

Ok tennis.

Oh dear, you are getting worse not better. There is massive corruption in tennis & that doesn't include the drug cheating. On the subject of VR in tennis - there's a stop in play after every point - more than the NFL!

May 2009 - The 119th ranked tennis player Mathieu Montcourt was suspended for five weeks and fined $12,000 for gambling on tennis. Supposedly, he only gambled $3 per match, ringing up a grand total of $192 bet in 36 matches. Whether true or not, in early July 2009, Montcourt was found dead in his Paris apartment building's stairwell. Investigators are still looking into the suspicious death of the 24-year old tennis player.

October 2009 - The WTA looked in to suspicious ending of a tennis match between U.S. Open finalist Caroline Wozniacki after she unexpectedly retired from a match winning 7-5, 5-0 (meaning she was a single game away from winning). Wozniacki claimed afterwords that she was injured early in the first set and her father instructed her to quit when she did, afraid of her further injuring herself. Betting on the match had swung heavily to her opponent prior to Wozniacki quitting.

March 2011 - A federal judge upheld a lawsuit brought against the ATP by five suspended Italian tennis players who were suspended in 2007. The players claim that the ATP withheld evidence that other, higher ranked players were also gambling and that the five were simply scapegoats for a league attempting to look cleaner than it actually is

June 2011 - Daniel Koellerer of Austria, the 385th ranked tennis player in the world, was banned for life for attempted match fixing. He is currently appealing the ruling of the Tennis Integrity Unit.

October 2011 - Another tennis player is suspended for life for attempting to fix matches. Serbian player David Savic, the 659th-ranked player, was also fined by the Tennis Integrity Unit $100,000 for three violations. The highest Savic was ever ranked was 363rd.

 

[ManCitizens.]

Proof positive that it could never work in football. The NFL is probably the worst example that you could use to support an argument for VR in football. The game stops for every play. It takes 3 - 4 hours to play due to all the stoppages. The game itself is only 60 minutes long. Also, I'd point you to the Seahawks/Packers game earlier this season - VR doesn't work!!

Ok tennis.

Oh dear, you are getting worse not better. There is massive corruption in tennis & that doesn't include the drug cheating. On the subject of VR in tennis - there's a stop in play after every point - more than the NFL!

May 2009 - The 119th ranked tennis player Mathieu Montcourt was suspended for five weeks and fined $12,000 for gambling on tennis. Supposedly, he only gambled $3 per match, ringing up a grand total of $192 bet in 36 matches. Whether true or not, in early July 2009, Montcourt was found dead in his Paris apartment building's stairwell. Investigators are still looking into the suspicious death of the 24-year old tennis player.

October 2009 - The WTA looked in to suspicious ending of a tennis match between U.S. Open finalist Caroline Wozniacki after she unexpectedly retired from a match winning 7-5, 5-0 (meaning she was a single game away from winning). Wozniacki claimed afterwords that she was injured early in the first set and her father instructed her to quit when she did, afraid of her further injuring herself. Betting on the match had swung heavily to her opponent prior to Wozniacki quitting.

March 2011 - A federal judge upheld a lawsuit brought against the ATP by five suspended Italian tennis players who were suspended in 2007. The players claim that the ATP withheld evidence that other, higher ranked players were also gambling and that the five were simply scapegoats for a league attempting to look cleaner than it actually is

June 2011 - Daniel Koellerer of Austria, the 385th ranked tennis player in the world, was banned for life for attempted match fixing. He is currently appealing the ruling of the Tennis Integrity Unit.

October 2011 - Another tennis player is suspended for life for attempting to fix matches. Serbian player David Savic, the 659th-ranked player, was also fined by the Tennis Integrity Unit $100,000 for three violations. The highest Savic was ever ranked was 363rd.

Just to make sure your aware, i am not suggesting football should duplicate another sport. Idiot. Parts can be taken to improve our sport, parts can also be avoided to prevent it becoming worse.

 

[CBlue]

Ok tennis.

Oh dear, you are getting worse not better. There is massive corruption in tennis & that doesn't include the drug cheating. On the subject of VR in tennis - there's a stop in play after every point - more than the NFL!

May 2009 - The 119th ranked tennis player Mathieu Montcourt was suspended for five weeks and fined $12,000 for gambling on tennis. Supposedly, he only gambled $3 per match, ringing up a grand total of $192 bet in 36 matches. Whether true or not, in early July 2009, Montcourt was found dead in his Paris apartment building's stairwell. Investigators are still looking into the suspicious death of the 24-year old tennis player.

October 2009 - The WTA looked in to suspicious ending of a tennis match between U.S. Open finalist Caroline Wozniacki after she unexpectedly retired from a match winning 7-5, 5-0 (meaning she was a single game away from winning). Wozniacki claimed afterwords that she was injured early in the first set and her father instructed her to quit when she did, afraid of her further injuring herself. Betting on the match had swung heavily to her opponent prior to Wozniacki quitting.

March 2011 - A federal judge upheld a lawsuit brought against the ATP by five suspended Italian tennis players who were suspended in 2007. The players claim that the ATP withheld evidence that other, higher ranked players were also gambling and that the five were simply scapegoats for a league attempting to look cleaner than it actually is

June 2011 - Daniel Koellerer of Austria, the 385th ranked tennis player in the world, was banned for life for attempted match fixing. He is currently appealing the ruling of the Tennis Integrity Unit.

October 2011 - Another tennis player is suspended for life for attempting to fix matches. Serbian player David Savic, the 659th-ranked player, was also fined by the Tennis Integrity Unit $100,000 for three violations. The highest Savic was ever ranked was 363rd.

Just to make sure your aware, i am not suggesting football should duplicate another sport. Idiot. Parts can be taken to improve our sport, parts can also be avoided to prevent it becoming worse.

You come out with shite that because the NFL & Tennis have VR then it could be & should be introduced into football & call me the idiot?
Which parts from Tennis & the NFL are you suggesting that could make football better, oh wise one?

 

[Yaya_Tony]

The way I see video tech working, is based on the fact we can replay any incident a few seconds after it happens. Keep the game as it is, give managers a set number of "challenges", say 2 each for the whole game. Ref makes decisions, 4th official verifies it, manager can challenge in real time. Would only work at the top level where it is all televised, one excuse for holding up this tech is that it won't work at grassroots...

Won't happen, but would like it to.

A ref makes a decision by not blowing his whistle for an incident - how does a manager then stop the game for a challenge? How long can he go back & appeal a decision? What happens if multiple incidents happen from the time the first incident happened? What happens to the time already played if you have to go back due to a succesful appeal? How far down the league structure will this apply - there are no franchises.

Simple stuff.

Game is played as it is now, if the ref plays on, play on. If a manager disagrees with a decision on a challenge, corner, throw-in, he can challenge it. The manager has 2 per game, would not fuck uo the flow of the match. Can be challenged immediately after the incident or not at all. The game continues as it is now.

How far down is more difficult. It'd have to be top-down considering the tech, so only the top league of a country to begin with. Then work it down. But I wouldn't expect sunday leagues to ever pick it up if that is what you mean. There is too much at stake at higher levels to leave it all to chance.