Is Messi Now Officially the Greatest Footballer in History?

Is Messi the greatest player in football history?

  • Yes

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ilrm said:
Prior to the World Cup I felt that Messi was the better player (same scoring rate as CR7 but twice the number of assists) but Ronaldo had the better career (CL, top-scorer & POTY in multiple leagues).
Now I feel that Messi has surpassed Ronaldo even career-wise as the WC is the ultimate football trophy every kid dreams of winning, and he won it while also winning the Golden Ball.

In terms of overall greatness:
Tier 1: Pele, Messi
Tier 2: Maradona
Tier 3: CR7, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Neuer, Eusebio
Tier 4: Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo Nazario, Maldini, Platini, Xavi, Baresi, Buffon, Gerd Muller, etc.
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Morning, might cause a little offence but there's another Ronaldo belongs in tier 4.
 
Tommy_Catons_Perm said:
But not as good a player as Pele and unlikely to become a revered worldwide ambassador of football.
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Was simply responding directly to your point, mate. I think, despite what a previous poster has said, C Ronaldo is entitled to be included in this debate, and the fact his star has now faded (he is 17 months older than Messi) shouldn’t detract from that as much as Pele’s standard when he played for New York Cosmos should be his benchmark. It’s a sign of C Ronaldo’s greatness that he remained so effective well into his 30s.

However, despite his incredible physical attributes and achievements in the game he’s certainly not the greatest. It can only be Messi really. Pele would certainly make my all time XI, but his talents were never tested at club football outside the Americas, which I’m afraid has to be the case to be considered the greatest imo. He was one hell of a player though, and would ease out C Ronaldo in that XI if I had to choose between the two.

But in terms of the greatest, it’s absolutely Messi in my eyes and was well before he lifted that trophy yesterday. That may have been the coronation in some people’s eyes, but his ascension was many years ago.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
Pele would certainly make my all time XI, but his talents were never tested at club football outside the Americas, which I’m afraid has to be the case to be considered the greatest imo.
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Whilst I agree with your assessment of Messi, I’m not sure i agree with that rationale. Is the Messi era La League really so much better than the Brazilian League of Santos. I really don’t know but Messi played in a hell of a lot of games for Barca where the result was a foregone conclusion.
 
Both players stats are just ridiculous. I am very lucky to have been alive to watch both of them + Colin Bell, David, Kun, Vinnie...

Edson Arantes do Nascimento ; born 23 October 1940), known as Pelé (Portuguese pronunciation: [peˈlɛ]), is a Brazilian former professional footballer who played as a forward. Regarded as one of the greatest players of all time and labelled "the greatest" by FIFA,[1] he was among the most successful and popular sports figures of the 20th century. In 1999, he was named Athlete of the Century by the International Olympic Committee and was included in the Time list of the 100 most important people of the 20th century. In 2000, Pelé was voted World Player of the Century by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) and was one of the two joint winners of the FIFA Player of the Century. His 1,279 goals in 1,363 games, which includes friendlies, is recognised as a Guinness World Record.[2]

Lionel Andrés Messi; born 24 June 1987), also known as Leo Messi, is an Argentine professional footballer who plays as a forward for Ligue 1 club Paris Saint-Germain and captains the Argentina national team. Widely regarded as one of the greatest players of all time, Messi has won a record seven Ballon d'Or awards,[note 2] a record six European Golden Shoes, and in 2020 was named to the Ballon d'Or Dream Team. Until leaving the club in 2021, he had spent his entire professional career with Barcelona, where he won a club-record 35 trophies, including 10 La Liga, seven Copa del Rey, and four UEFA Champions League titles. With his country, he claimed the 2021 Copa América and 2022 FIFA World Cup titles. A prolific goalscorer and creative playmaker, Messi holds the records for most goals in La Liga (474), most goals in a La Liga and European league season (50), most hat-tricks in La Liga (36) and the UEFA Champions League (8), and most assists in La Liga (192), a La Liga season (21) and the Copa América (17). He also holds the record for most international goals by a South American male (98). Messi has scored over 790 senior career goals (in just over 1000 matches) for club and country, and has the most goals by a player for a single club (672).
 
I wouldn't want to play any of them at Centre-Back - although Pele might have had the attributes to play there. And would any of these be in the debate had they represented Bolivia, or Bhutan or Botswana?

Football is a team game - and so even the greatest of players need good teams around them to showcase talent or to win the trophies that such careers are being judged by. What of course they can do is lift that team beyond everyone else - Maradonna for Argentina in 86, CRonaldo when Portugual won Euro's - and perhaps Messi this time around. And important as other positions are - it's difficult to remember when the best defenders dragged an ordinary team to triumph - although perhaps Cannavero or Buffon did so for Italy in 2006, and of course Greece in 2004 was all about the team.

So everyone mentioned have been great players - players who lift you of your seat and get you excited watching football (or frighten you if they are opposition) - perhaps that is the mark of their greatness and all listed could do that. And after all that - I don't know who I would go for - but I'd also want to add Cruyff into the debate. He was crucial in Ajax winning 3 European Cups in succession, in taking Netherlands from a nation that didn't even qualify for World Cups to World Cup Finalists. He had a lasting influence on the way football is played now and could have probably played Centre Back as well!
 
from Pele, maradona, messi/ronaldo pitches, fitness levels, football equipment, diets etc have all been diferent for each player


would messi/ronaldo has been as good on a diet of 20 fags a day, steak, and muddy pitches playing in teams not as gifted as the barca and real teams of their pomp?
would Pele or Maradona been disciplined enough for modern footballs stricter ways or would having a plethora or talent around them made them lazy?

no one can say

60s/70s Pele the greatest
80s/90s Maradona the greatest
00s/10s Messi the greatest

diferent eras diferent conditons not one can truly be called better than the other but for personal opinion
 
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Yes he won it all. He completed football. There are no stats against him only personal choice
 
Something relevant to add to this debate and I think it is also very relevant to how MCFC coach players is the fact what a fantastic World Cup Julian Alvarez had and his influence and link up play and movement bringing the best out of a 35 year old Lionel Messi who it has to be said has been a shadow of the player for 2 years he once was since joining PSG . Alvarez without doubt brought the best out of a possibly finished world icon who ended up a World Cup winner and player of the tournament. Contrast Ronaldo,s exit of the biggest stage ……….. just incredible comparisons .

Messi nails it
Huge congratulations to Julian Alvarez !
 
cyan said:
Football is a team game - and so even the greatest of players need good teams around them to showcase talent or to win the trophies that such careers are being judged by. What of course they can do is lift that team beyond everyone else - Maradonna for Argentina in 86, CRonaldo when Portugual won Euro's - and perhaps Messi this time around.
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Must admit I get mildly irritated when people cite Ronaldo's Euro win as a mark of greatness.
I think he clearly is a very fine player but in those Euros Portugal generally played very poor football and were unconvincing against generally mediocre opponents.
Their best match was undoubtedly the final of which Ronaldo only played about 20 minutes.
When Maradona's Argentina won the world cup he was very clearly player of the tournament by a country mile.
Messi maybe slightly less so but he was still wonderful and Argentina were deserving winners after losing to Saudi.
In the Euros Griezman was player of the tournament and Portugal were very lucky.
 
WNRH said:
Maradona-grab5-001.jpg
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Yeah, good article in guardian couple weeks ago about the pic but it still summarises brilliantly just what Diego was: THE footballing God
 
urban genie said:
from Pele, maradona, messi/ronaldo pitches, fitness levels, football equipment, diets etc have all been diferent forneach player


would messi/ronaldo has been as good on a diet of 20 fags a day, steak, and muddy pitches playing in teams not as gifted as the barca and real teams or their pomp?
would Pele or Maradona been disciplined enough for modern footballs stricter ways or would having a plethora or talent made them lazy?

no one can say

60s/70s Pele the greatest
80s/90s Maradona the greatest
00s/10s Messi the greatest

diferent eras diferent conditons not one can truly be called better than the other but personal for opinion
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As you say it's a bit like when there is a discussion about who's the greatest City player of all time. It's all a bit hypothetical comparing players from different eras.
The commentator yesterday was saying Maradona was constantly 'hacked down'(the refs let a lot more go in his time, so that was something else he had to deal with)
Soneone may have mentioned it already but you could maybe add Cruyff (senior, obviously,)and Eusebio to that above list of candidate's.
This century at least, Messi by an absolute mile. Much though he is very easy to dislike for neutrals, Ronaldo certainly isn't bad(!) but realistically isn't anywhere near Messi.
 
ilrm said:
Prior to the World Cup I felt that Messi was the better player (same scoring rate as CR7 but twice the number of assists) but Ronaldo had the better career (CL, top-scorer & POTY in multiple leagues).
Now I feel that Messi has surpassed Ronaldo even career-wise as the WC is the ultimate football trophy every kid dreams of winning, and he won it while also winning the Golden Ball.

In terms of overall greatness:
Tier 1: Pele, Messi
Tier 2: Maradona
Tier 3: CR7, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Neuer, Eusebio
Tier 4: Zidane, Figo, Ronaldo Nazario, Maldini, Platini, Xavi, Buffon, Gerd Muller, Matthaus, Rijkaard, etc.
Click to expand...

Not one English player ? Bobby Moore, Bobby Charlton, Gazza ...
 
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