Israel strikes again!!!

This is what David Ben-Gurion said in 1948 the year Israel became a state,

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharmine-narwani/being-anti-israel-and-ant_b_393971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharmine- ... 93971.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israeli-war-on-gaza-killed-252-children-claims-human-rights-agency-14483864.html#ixzz0QuK0aaYX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... z0QuK0aaYX</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/de ... ted-organs</a>


A few facts:

1. Over the three weeks following December 27th the Israeli Army and Airforce killed over 1,300 Palestinians, including over 400 children, and injured more than 4,000 in a series of brutal attacks on the besieged population of Gaza. In the same period 14 Israelis were killed, 3 of which were civilians who died as a result of rocket attacks.

2. Israel attacked Gaza from the air, sea and land, targeting the main UN compound in which 700 civilians were sheltering (As reported by Reuters on the 15/01/2009). A hospital and three schools belonging to the UN were also bombarded. In one incident, thirty civilians were killed after Israeli troops gathered them into one house to shelter and subsequently proceeded to shell it, killing all those inside (As reported in the Washington Times on the 10/01/2009). All in all, three hospitals were attacked, the main university in Gaza was almost completely destroyed as were hundreds of civilian homes, schools, health clinics, police stations and government buildings. Much of Gaza's infrastructure, electricity plants, water systems, roads and telecommunications were also severely damaged, deepening the already desperate humanitarian crisis (As reported by Human Rights Watch on the 13/01/2009)

3. During the onslaught into Gaza, Israel used white phosphorus illegally. (As reported by Amnesty International on the 19/01/2009, and The Times on the 24/01/2009)

4. The Israeli siege and blockade of Gaza has crippled the Gazan economy and caused starvation and malnourishment throughout Gaza. The Governments of Israel, the United States, and the EU have blockaded the Gaza Strip, refusing to allow food, fuel, and medical supplies into Gaza. The Israeli imposed blockade has resulted in a situation where over 750,000 people in Gaza are reliant upon food aid, over 80% of the population face unemployment, and hospitals have been forced to operate below minimum requirements. Amnesty International has condemned the blockade as a form of collective punishment, noting that it is a violation of the Geneva Convention and a war crime.

Since November 2008, Israel prevented foreign journalists from entering Gaza. This has prevented outside reporting of the situation.

5. Criticism of the State of Israel is not ant-Semitic in and of itself.

6. 2008 marked the 60th anniversary of the "Nakba" - the expulsion of the great majority of Palestinian Arabs from their homes and homeland in historic Palestine between 1947 and 1949. The expulsion –planned and systematically carried out – was essential to the creation of the state of Israel. Those dispossessed during the Nakba and their descendants now make up a refugee population of more than 4 million living without normal citizenship status. Their right to return to their home, legally recognised under international law, including United Nations resolution 194, has never been accepted by Israel.

7. Israel continues to build an 8 metre high "annexation" wall on Palestinian land inside the post-1967 occupied West Bank, contravening the July 2004 ruling by the International Court of Justice (the highest legal body in the world, whose statutes all UN members are party to) and causing the forcible separation of Palestinian communities from one another and the annexation of additional Palestinian land.

8. Within the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, Israel continues a policy of settlement expansion in direct violation of Article 49, paragraph 6 of the 4th Geneva Convention which declares "an occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into territories it occupies." The settlements for Israelis only, housing approximately 500,000 residents, are made possible through the settler-colonial theft of Palestinian Arab land, flouting Article 17 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states that "no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property."

9. Since 1967 Israel has demolished over 18 000 Palestinian family homes to sustain a policy of "quiet transfer" of the indigenous Palestinian population and the annexation of their land, leaving some 70,000 Palestinian civilians traumatised and without shelter or compensation.

10. Hundreds of kilometres of settler-only roads, on which the indigenous Palestinian Arab population is not permitted to drive, carve up the West Bank.

11. Some 500 checkpoints and roadblocks – designed to corral the Palestinian Arab population - pockmark the occupied West Bank, causing significant damage to Palestinian commerce and access to medical care and education. This ghettoization or "Bantustanization" of the Palestinian people markedly violates the spirit of Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states "everyone has the right to freedom of movement."

12. Israel engages in reckless collective punishment over the whole of the Palestinian population, with the recent siege of Gaza a prime example. According to Physicians for Human Rights, "The prolonged siege imposed by the Israeli government on Gaza, the closing of its borders, the tightening of policies regarding permission to exit Gaza for medical purposes, and the severe shortage of medications and other medical supplies all severely damage the Palestinian health system and endanger the lives and health of thousands of Palestinian patients." The Red Cross calls life in Gaza "a nightmare" for the civilian population, saying that "the whole strip is being strangled, economically speaking" with essential supplies, including electricity and fuel, being denied to the 1.5 million inhabitants where 80% depend on aid to survive.

16. Within Israel's 1948 borders, where roughly 20% of the population is Palestinian Arab, over 40 "unrecognised villages" exist housing over 100 000 Palestinian "citizens of Israel." The Israeli government ignores the existence of these villages even though many have existed for hundreds of years. These villages have not appeared on any map, they lack basic infrastructure, and the state of Israel has made numerous attempts to demolish them constituting a gross violation of human rights.

13. Israeli law openly discriminates on the basis of religion, race, and nationality, with different laws regarding citizenship, housing, land ownership, and marriage applying depending on whether someone is classified in law as "Jewish" or "non-Jewish."

14. Archbishop Desmond Tutu, South African anti-Apartheid activist:
"I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa."

15. The UN's special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, South African law professor John Dugard, in a 2007 UN report concluded that "there is an apartheid regime" in the occupied Palestinian territories "worse than the one that existed in South Africa." He went on to state: "It is difficult to resist the conclusion that many of Israel's laws and practices violate the 1966 Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Racial Discrimination. House demolitions in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are carried out in a manner that discriminates against Palestinians. Throughout the West Bank, and particularly in Hebron, settlers are given preferential treatment over Palestinians in terms of movement (major roads are reserved exclusively for settlers), building rights and army protection; and laws governing family re-unification unashamedly discriminate against Palestinians."

16. A vital part of the global campaign against apartheid in South Africa was the tactic of boycott, whereby the anti-apartheid movements called for the severing of all links to South Africa; including economic, political, cultural, and academic.

17. Ronnie Kasrils, the Jewish South African Minister of Intelligence said "The boycotts and sanctions ultimately helped liberate both blacks and whites in South Africa. Palestinians and Israelis will similarly benefit from this non-violent campaign that Palestinians are calling for."

18. From 2002 to 2004 nearly sixty academic, professional, and cultural associations and trade unions in the occupied West Bank, representing a broad cross section of Palestinian society, requested internationals work more actively to support Palestinian rights and specifically that those outside Palestine "promote divestment and disinvestment from Israel by international academic institutions."

19. The humanitarian crisis in Gaza urgently requires aid to be brought in. Recently, the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), comprising of thirteen British charities, called on all UK news broadcasters to broadcast a public appeal for Gaza. The BBC refused.


Have a nice day.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
Netanyahu to me is a poor leader who plays it safe and doesn't have the inclination, imagination or authority to make any bold moves whereas Begin, who had immacualte right-wing credentials, did.

You must be tripping if you think Begin did anything to advance peace in the region. Begin making peace with Egypt was a strategic move and nothing more. He didn't like the idea of having enemies on several flanks and so made peace with one so he could concentrate on the other.

But you are right, just not about Begin. It is absolutely the case that when the extremists, right-wingers in Israel's case, sit down and start talking that you are getting something somewhere.

-- Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:01 am --

Cheesy said:
Skashion said:
I've not fallen into any trap at all. OK, we'll make another assumption just to make it absolutely clear there isn't a 'trap'. Imagine there's no Hamas, no Hezbollah, no intifadas. Nada. Now, answer the question. How do you get Israel to make concessions? My answer: You can't right now. The status quo is preferable, and one in which there is no 'terrorism' would be even more so. What's your answer. I'm fairly sure of why you're avoiding this question. Prove me wrong.

I have no idea where you're trying to go with this, and I would be grateful if you could tell me why you think I'm avoiding anything. In my original post I was merely pointing out that you only mentioned how Israel must change its approach. That cannot work, it must be bilateral.

It's very easy to say that we should imagine that the groups you mentioned don't exist, but they do. If they didn't, who knows what Israel would do? I don't & neither do you & pretending otherwise is pointless.

Apologies, I didn't read who had posted - I had originally been discussing it with Prestwich_Blue and assumed it was him, so no, you weren't trying to avoid it at that time. Now, however, you are.

You can speculate by using game theory. It's pretty much a core element of political science, especially when it comes to diplomacy. I don't know if you play poker but it's exactly like that. You've got to think about what cards your opponent has and also how they usually play them. Now, what would entice Israel to acquiesce to Palestinian demands considering that the Israeli position is very strong and the Palestinians', very weak? Are they just going to give the Palestinians a viable, sovereign, contiguous state connected by a corridor, with East Jerusalem as its capital, and right of return, purely out of the goodness of their hearts and give the Israeli electorate two fingers whilst doing it?
 
Quite good this thread really, people looking at solutions instead of barking on abut the same old problems and throwing the blame game at one another.
People talked about how peace was achieved in Northern Ireland and there are definitely some experiences there that can help.
One would be the attitude and influence of Jewish Diaspora groups. For instance, until the Clinton era, I think a lot of Irish-Americans with an interest of affairs in the mother land, displayed some sort of support for violent republicanism because of this romantic myth they had about the armed struggle. I think Clinton was successful in changing Irish American attitudes and making them realise that 99% of Irish people wanted peace and reconciliation. Hugh pressure was put on the republican movement to stop its campaign of violence from politicians and Irish-American businessmen and funds for arms dried up too.
Recently, a new Jewish organisation 'J Street' has sprung up in the States and has found favour with many of those in the liberal Jewish community. If it can extend it's influence in the White House and towards Middle Eastern policy to the detriment of Aipac then that can only be a good thing long term.
Their influence can hopefully help to convince the Israeli government that it’s interests lie in a negotiated two state solution with a shared capital of Jerusalem. This would be in stark contrast to the blind and un-wavering support the Israelis receive from Aipac
In addition, if we ever get proper elections in Iran and a decent reforming government, we may see the supply of arms to extremists in Gaza dry up and the tit for tat violence cease.
These are the sorts of outside conditions I think are needed as a precursor to peace, never mind a new centre-left Israeli coalition and a more pragmatic political and non-violent standpoint from Hamas.
 
Agree with most of your post blue_paul, except I think that a lot of romanticaly founded support for Irish Republicans in the US died with 9/11, when frankly the silly plastic Irish Americans were shamed into not funding terrorism by getting an extreme taste of it in their own backyards.
 
DTeacher said:
This is what David Ben-Gurion said in 1948 the year Israel became a state,

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."

David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978


<a class="postlink" href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharmine-narwani/being-anti-israel-and-ant_b_393971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharmine- ... 93971.html</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/israeli-war-on-gaza-killed-252-children-claims-human-rights-agency-14483864.html#ixzz0QuK0aaYX" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... z0QuK0aaYX</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/de ... ted-organs</a>


A few facts:

1. Over the three weeks following December 27th the Israeli Army and Airforce killed over 1,300 Palestinians, including over 400 children, and injured more than 4,000 in a series of brutal attacks on the besieged population of Gaza. In the same period 14 Israelis were killed, 3 of which were civilians who died as a result of rocket attacks.

2. Israel attacked Gaza from the air, sea and land, targeting the main UN compound in which 700 civilians were sheltering (As reported by Reuters on the 15/01/2009). A hospital and three schools belonging to the UN were also bombarded. In one incident, thirty civilians were killed after Israeli troops gathered them into one house to shelter and subsequently proceeded to shell it, killing all those inside (As reported in the Washington Times on the 10/01/2009). All in all, three hospitals were attacked, the main university in Gaza was almost completely destroyed as were hundreds of civilian homes, schools, health clinics, police stations and government buildings. Much of Gaza's infrastructure, electricity plants, water systems, roads and telecommunications were also severely damaged, deepening the already desperate humanitarian crisis (As reported by Human Rights Watch on the 13/01/2009)

3. During the onslaught into Gaza, Israel used white phosphorus illegally. (As reported by Amnesty International on the 19/01/2009, and The Times on the 24/01/2009)

4. The Israeli siege and blockade of Gaza has crippled the Gazan economy and caused starvation and malnourishment throughout Gaza. The Governments of Israel, the United States, and the EU have blockaded the Gaza Strip, refusing to allow food, fuel, and medical supplies into Gaza. The Israeli imposed blockade has resulted in a situation where over 750,000 people in Gaza are reliant upon food aid, over 80% of the population face unemployment, and hospitals have been forced to operate below minimum requirements. Amnesty International has condemned the blockade as a form of collective punishment, noting that it is a violation of the Geneva Convention and a war crime.

Since November 2008, Israel prevented foreign journalists from entering Gaza. This has prevented outside reporting of the situation.

5. Criticism of the State of Israel is not ant-Semitic in and of itself.

6. 2008 marked the 60th anniversary of the "Nakba" - the expulsion of the great majority of Palestinian Arabs from their homes and homeland in historic Palestine between 1947 and 1949. The expulsion –planned and systematically carried out – was essential to the creation of the state of Israel. Those dispossessed during the Nakba and their descendants now make up a refugee population of more than 4 million living without normal citizenship status. Their right to return to their home, legally recognised under international law, including United Nations resolution 194, has never been accepted by Israel.

7. Israel continues to build an 8 metre high "annexation" wall on Palestinian land inside the post-1967 occupied West Bank, contravening the July 2004 ruling by the International Court of Justice (the highest legal body in the world, whose statutes all UN members are party to) and causing the forcible separation of Palestinian communities from one another and the annexation of additional Palestinian land.

8. Within the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, Israel continues a policy of settlement expansion in direct violation of Article 49, paragraph 6 of the 4th Geneva Convention which declares "an occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into territories it occupies." The settlements for Israelis only, housing approximately 500,000 residents, are made possible through the settler-colonial theft of Palestinian Arab land, flouting Article 17 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states that "no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property."

9. Since 1967 Israel has demolished over 18 000 Palestinian family homes to sustain a policy of "quiet transfer" of the indigenous Palestinian population and the annexation of their land, leaving some 70,000 Palestinian civilians traumatised and without shelter or compensation.

10. Hundreds of kilometres of settler-only roads, on which the indigenous Palestinian Arab population is not permitted to drive, carve up the West Bank.

11. Some 500 checkpoints and roadblocks – designed to corral the Palestinian Arab population - pockmark the occupied West Bank, causing significant damage to Palestinian commerce and access to medical care and education. This ghettoization or "Bantustanization" of the Palestinian people markedly violates the spirit of Article 13 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which states "everyone has the right to freedom of movement."

12. Israel engages in reckless collective punishment over the whole of the Palestinian population, with the recent siege of Gaza a prime example. According to Physicians for Human Rights, "The prolonged siege imposed by the Israeli government on Gaza, the closing of its borders, the tightening of policies regarding permission to exit Gaza for medical purposes, and the severe shortage of medications and other medical supplies all severely damage the Palestinian health system and endanger the lives and health of thousands of Palestinian patients." The Red Cross calls life in Gaza "a nightmare" for the civilian population, saying that "the whole strip is being strangled, economically speaking" with essential supplies, including electricity and fuel, being denied to the 1.5 million inhabitants where 80% depend on aid to survive.

16. Within Israel's 1948 borders, where roughly 20% of the population is Palestinian Arab, over 40 "unrecognised villages" exist housing over 100 000 Palestinian "citizens of Israel." The Israeli government ignores the existence of these villages even though many have existed for hundreds of years. These villages have not appeared on any map, they lack basic infrastructure, and the state of Israel has made numerous attempts to demolish them constituting a gross violation of human rights.

13. Israeli law openly discriminates on the basis of religion, race, and nationality, with different laws regarding citizenship, housing, land ownership, and marriage applying depending on whether someone is classified in law as "Jewish" or "non-Jewish."

14. Archbishop Desmond Tutu, South African anti-Apartheid activist:
"I've been very deeply distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa."

15. The UN's special rapporteur on human rights in the Palestinian territories, South African law professor John Dugard, in a 2007 UN report concluded that "there is an apartheid regime" in the occupied Palestinian territories "worse than the one that existed in South Africa." He went on to state: "It is difficult to resist the conclusion that many of Israel's laws and practices violate the 1966 Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Racial Discrimination. House demolitions in the West Bank and East Jerusalem are carried out in a manner that discriminates against Palestinians. Throughout the West Bank, and particularly in Hebron, settlers are given preferential treatment over Palestinians in terms of movement (major roads are reserved exclusively for settlers), building rights and army protection; and laws governing family re-unification unashamedly discriminate against Palestinians."

16. A vital part of the global campaign against apartheid in South Africa was the tactic of boycott, whereby the anti-apartheid movements called for the severing of all links to South Africa; including economic, political, cultural, and academic.

17. Ronnie Kasrils, the Jewish South African Minister of Intelligence said "The boycotts and sanctions ultimately helped liberate both blacks and whites in South Africa. Palestinians and Israelis will similarly benefit from this non-violent campaign that Palestinians are calling for."

18. From 2002 to 2004 nearly sixty academic, professional, and cultural associations and trade unions in the occupied West Bank, representing a broad cross section of Palestinian society, requested internationals work more actively to support Palestinian rights and specifically that those outside Palestine "promote divestment and disinvestment from Israel by international academic institutions."

19. The humanitarian crisis in Gaza urgently requires aid to be brought in. Recently, the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC), comprising of thirteen British charities, called on all UK news broadcasters to broadcast a public appeal for Gaza. The BBC refused.


Have a nice day.


Well said my friend!
I was about to post this information myself.

I get so bloody angry when people blindly defend Israel.Many Israelis are sick of the stance their leaders are taking. I am very closely linked to the ISM which was actually started by Israelis, and there are many other groups, such as "Anarchists against the wall" who no longer want Israel killing thousands of people in their name.

Yes,you can defend the actions of Israel,but why anyone would really is beyond me!!

I call on all fellow bluemooners to boycott Israel goods,and we should be calling on our government to end all diplomatic relations with Israel,enough is enough!

I've spent time in Gaza,and most of the people I met there just want to live in peace. Most actually would be happy with a one state solution (this really surprised me!) and they don't even care if its called Israel,all they want is to be treated as people and live their lives.

I hope to return in two years time and my greatest wish is that when I get there, it is to discover that the lives of my friends has greatly improved and they are not living in constant fear.
 
pinkwheeltrim said:
DTeacher said:


Well said my friend!
I was about to post this information myself.

I get so bloody angry when people blindly defend Israel.Many Israelis are sick of the stance their leaders are taking. I am very closely linked to the ISM which was actually started by Israelis, and there are many other groups, such as "Anarchists against the wall" who no longer want Israel killing thousands of people in their name.

Yes,you can defend the actions of Israel,but why anyone would really is beyond me!!

I call on all fellow bluemooners to boycott Israel goods,and we should be calling on our government to end all diplomatic relations with Israel,enough is enough!

I've spent time in Gaza,and most of the people I met there just want to live in peace. Most actually would be happy with a one state solution (this really surprised me!) and they don't even care if its called Israel,all they want is to be treated as people and live their lives.

I hope to return in two years time and my greatest wish is that when I get there, it is to discover that the lives of my friends has greatly improved and they are not living in constant fear.

Brilliant posts from DTeach and Pinkster, brilliant. Pinky, you make probably the most important comment that i have personally read on this forum, i have underlined it, and you know what these said pissed off Israeli's are called? they are called 'self haters', and this is the Zionist,war mongering twonks that parade themselves as Jewish, it is a disgrace and a blind man could see what is happeneing. Unfortunately there are some on this forum that start the ol' Anti-Semitic bolox and try and shut you down, i mentioned about the self haters and i was warned 'i am on choppy waters' with these comments by someone who should know a lot better by the way. Well done for trying to expose this genocide/murder/racism by this disgraceful regime, well done and thankyou.
 

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