It's Quiet the £250m return

domalino said:
Frankly if we can't whittle down Rodri, Reijnders, Gonzalez, Nunes, Kovacic, Gundogan, Bernardo, Kovacic, Rico, Nico, Cherki, Foden & Stones into a decent midfield 3 and 3 backups for the season then we've got serious problems.
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True but should we sell/loan Gonzalez and then Rodri gets injured it’s back to square one. No back-up specialist DM.
 
waspish said:
I swear there are certain posters on here are just here to be controversial to get people to post!

The only other reason I see they post utter tripe and big up other team players who haven’t even played one premier game yet is that they are not Man City supporters because how can you post such utter disdain about Man City players that won the lot!?

Fair play if it’s to generate posts because you doing a grand job in the close season!
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Well, yeah, that's pretty much what all social media is these days. Not for the better, either.

Being controversial for clicks is much more lucrative (ok not on here, but Twitter etc) than sensible and reasoned debate. Then you get the people who get a kick out of reactions and do it simply to troll others.

The best thing to do is don't feed the trolls! Or get them wet, as they then turn into more, evil trolls.
 
IrishBlueSince92 said:
To borrow a term from the 115 charges thread, the soft signals surrounding Gonzalez aren't good.
Its probably odds against that he's a success here now.
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And I think that's a valid criticism of Pep.

You can absolutely think he is the best manager in the world, the right man for the job, want him in the post as long as possible, acknowledge he knows more about football(ers) than anyone posting here and you can simultaneously hold the opinion that Gundogan and Bernardo are a major blind spot for him.
 
mdj0520 said:
And I think that's a valid criticism of Pep.

You can absolutely think he is the best manager in the world, the right man for the job, want him in the post as long as possible, acknowledge he knows more about football(ers) than anyone posting here and you can simultaneously hold the opinion that Gundogan and Bernardo are a major blind spot for him.
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Spot on
 
K-Bo said:
Would love to be proven wrong, but i think the evidence and recent history suggests the club doesn't have the capacity to say no to pep, even when they know he's wrong. No rebuild last summer, is the perfect example.
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We don't know who 'said no' to who.

What we do know is that they all say the same thing, as one unit, and Pep is not shy of taking a hit or taking responsibility for the collective issues.

Unlike other managers that moan whrn they don't get what they want from their boards.
 
TonyColemansbagofapples said:
So what had Phil achieved in comparison with Wirtz up to the age of 22? Please list their relative accomplishments for all to see.
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More like up to the age of 21 not 22 since Wirtz season being 22 hasn’t even started yet.




Phil Foden made his professional debut for Manchester City in 2017 at the age of 17, but for much of his early career, he was eased into the first team as a rotation option under Pep Guardiola. While this allowed him to learn in an elite environment, it also meant limited game time and relatively low responsibility in the early years. From 17 to around 20, Foden often featured off the bench and was surrounded by some of the best players in the world, which naturally made it easier to shine in certain moments without carrying the full creative burden.


In contrast, Florian Wirtz broke into Bayer Leverkusen’s first team in 2020 at just 17 years old and immediately became a starter. Unlike Foden, Wirtz was given a central role from the beginning — tasked with driving the attack, creating chances, and often acting as the team’s key playmaker. His influence was not only consistent but crucial, and he took on far more responsibility for his team’s offensive output than most players his age.



From a statistical point of view, Wirtz was remarkably productive. Despite suffering a serious ACL injury in 2022, he still managed to reach over 60 goal contributions (goals + assists) before the age of 21. In the 2023/24 season, just before turning 21, he played a leading role in Leverkusen’s historic campaign, helping the club win both the Bundesliga and the DFB-Pokal while going unbeaten in the league also while being their best player. Which other 21 yr old did that in the Bundesliga? Only one who came close was Götze back then who was compared to Neymar and even then Dortmund didn’t go unbeaten.




Wirtz individual accomplishments

  • Fritz-Walter Medal Gold (U17 in 2020, U19 in 2022)
  • Bundesliga Rookie of the Year (2020/21)
  • Bundesliga Team of the Season (multiple times)
  • Europa League Young Player of the Season (2022/23)

Foden also achieved major success, especially in terms of team trophies. Between 17 and 21, he won multiple Premier League titles, League Cups, and an FA Cup with Manchester City. He was named PFA Young Player of the Year twice (2020/21 and 2021/22) and Premier League Young Player of the Season twice as well. These are impressive honors too difference is the team they both played for. Not saying making the first team at the age of 17 isn’t impressive but there’s a difference between turning an team completely over in that age group then being a part of it while mostly sitting on the bench. We are talking about individual stuff not what the team has done.

To put it simply: Foden played for the best team in the league — and won accordingly. Wirtz played for a strong team — but made them elite. He was the focal point of Leverkusen’s success. For me it’s like saying Vinicius is better then Neymar because he won more - yet no one will actually believe that. Obviously the Neymar to Vinicius comparison is dumb since Neymar is easily top 5 most talented offensive players of all time but still you get the memo?
Between the ages of 17-21 Wirtz had more impact for his team.
And that’s where Wirtz currently is. He hasn’t had a season since turning 22.

Numbers only

Phil Foden born May 28,2000
  • Premier League** (2017/18 to 2021/22):
    – Appearances: 5 + 13 + 23 + 28 + 28 = 97
    – Goals: 0 + 1 + 5 + 9 + 9 = 24
  • FA Cup:
    – 0 (2017/18) + 3 (18/19) + 1 (19/20) + 2 (20/21) + 1 (21/22) = 7 appearances, ~6 goals
  • EFL Cup (League Cup):
    – 2 + 5 + 5 + 4 + 2 = 18 apps, ~5 goals (2+0+0+2+1)
  • UEFA Champions League:
    – 3 + 4 + 5 + 13 + 11 = 36 apps, goals: 0 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 3 = 9 goals




Florian Wirtz May 3, 2003
  • Bundesliga:
    – 2020/21: 29 apps, 5 goals, 5 assists
    – 2021/22: 24 apps, 7 goals, 10 assists (season cut short due to injury)
    – 2022/23: (post-injury return, approximately full season) around 32 apps, 11 goals, 12 assists
    → Total Bundesliga (till age 21): apps ≈ 85, goals 23, assists 27
  • DFB‑Pokal:
    – 2020/21: 1 appearance, 1 goal
    – 2021/22: 1 appearance, ~1 assist
    – 2023/24 partial: 6 apps, 3 goals, 4 assists
    → Total DFB‑Pokal: ~8 apps, 4 goals, ~5 assists
  • UEFA Europa League:
    – 2020/21: 7 apps, 2 goals, 2 assists
    – 2021/22: 6 apps, 3 goals, 4 assists
    – 2023/24: 11 apps, 4 goals, 4 assists
    → Total Europa League: 24 apps, 9 goals, 10 assists
  • UEFA Champions League:
    – Wirtz only played in UCL in first half of 2024/25, after turning 21 → excludes from age‑17‑21 period.
 
IrishBlueSince92 said:
To borrow a term from the 115 charges thread, the soft signals surrounding Gonzalez aren't good.
Its probably odds against that he's a success here now.
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Gonzalez isn’t top level, isn’t good enough for us if we want to be at the top level and was a very odd signing, to add to our other odd midfield signings.

Gundogan is still a better player than Gonzalez, and if Guardiola is to choose between the two of them then there’s only one winner.
 
Lee the Blue said:
Keeping Gundo and letting Gonzalez go would be utterly bizarre.

Clearly it seems Pep doesn't fancy Gonzalez - no idea why as he's looked half decent every time he's been given an opportunity, but to jettison him 6 months after paying £60m for him calls into question the clubs own judgement and recruitment policies.

Love Gundo as a player but his legs have gone. Watching him ambling back for that first Al Hilal goal the other week graphically illustrated how his best days are in the rear view mirror.
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Exactly.

Remove the emotion, and it’s clear where the future lies.

One is about hit 35, with a year left on his contract, and was a free signing.

The other is 23, with four years to run - and we paid £80m for him just six months ago.

Bizarre.
 
waspish said:
Foden in the best league in Europe. Wirts in a 3rd best league in Europe! Tells you Foden is better than Wirts now! Wirts in 6 years has stats to compare with Foden then I’ll say fair do’s he is as good as Foden!

Foden age up-to 22 to compare with Wirts at 22


Foden>>

By the age of 22 (May 28, 2022), Phil Foden had approximately:

  • Games: ~205 (190-200 for Manchester City + 15-17 for
  • England)
  • Goals: 56-57 (54-55 for Manchester City + 2 for
  • England)
  • Assists: 36-40 (36-38 for Manchester City + 0-2 for
  • England)


Wirts>>

By age 22 (May 3, 2025), Florian Wirtz had approximately:

  • Games: ~201-202 (175 club +
    26-27 international)
  • Goals: ~53-55 (49-50 club +
    4-5 international)
  • Assists: ~68-70 (62-63 club +
    6-7 international)


Who Has Better Stats with Minutes Played?

• Foden is more efficient in scoring (0.44 goals/90 vs.

0.33), making him the better goal-scorer per minute played.

  • Wirtz excels in assists (0.42 assists/90 vs. 0.30), highlighting his playmaking prowess.

Overall (G/A per 90): The metrics are nearly identical (0.74 vs. 0.75), but Wirtz's higher assist output and more minutes played suggest he's had a greater creative impact, while Foden's goal-scoring efficiency stands out in fewer minutes.
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You seem to be implying that any PL player is better than any Bundesliga player. Are you sure?
 
BillyShears said:
What a wanker. Imagine fluffing the scousers whilst chatting like this about your own squad. You also clearly don’t understand what a “fact” is either.
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I'm amazed someone who is clearly as intelligent as you are resorts to such base level abuse. I'd tell you to grow up but having watched your podcasts I know that age isnt the issue.....

It's not fluffing the scousers to say they have great players...they just won the league for a start and have brought in good players...one of which if we had got everyone would be very happy about

The squad needs an overhaul...the process has started but nowhere near finished.

Try dropping the abuse ...anyone can resort to that but only few sink as low as it
 
mosssideblue said:
What’s depressing is your fucking incessant need to keep repeating the same.

We get it, you think we’ll struggle next season based on your feelings others are better than us.
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Only on response to others debating otherwise. That's the while Pint of a forum...if you are here for only one point of view you have kind of missed the point of a forum.
Or if we have it yours and other people's way we all just agree...we are the best always, we don't need to improve, some of our players don't need to be moved on, every other team is shit and they cheat to win things.....think that about covers it
 
Nicholas van Whatsisface said:
Exactly.

Remove the emotion, and it’s clear where the future lies.

One is about hit 35, with a year left on his contract, and was a free signing.

The other is 23, with four years to run - and we paid £80m for him just six months ago.

Bizarre.
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Please don't tell me that we paid 80m for him? I thought its was more like 50
 
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