Jadon Sancho

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Neville Kneville said:
Like the agreed plan where he was being followed by most top clubs in europe, agreed to sign a new deal at City with the promise of first team involvement but we fucked him off on loan because Pellegrini's boy Demichelis didn't get a move.

Another great advert for persuading young players to sign up in the future.
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We have give him 1st team involvement no other club in premier has done this with a lad who was 16 at the time personally he is great prospect but Foden and Diaz are just as good.
 
doobyedoobye said:
What does the club gain by behaving so recklessly with youth development?
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New flashy signings = happy new fans, shirt sales, maybe more chance of immediate success, more column inches

It's sad that so many long term fans are jumping on the bandwagon that new £50m players are essential for us to perform well and that if academy players aren't playing then it ust be because they aren't good enough.
 
CityStu said:
New flashy signings = happy new fans, shirt sales, maybe more chance of immediate success, more column inches

It's sad that so many long term fans are jumping on the bandwagon that new £50m players are essential for us to perform well and that if academy players aren't playing then it ust be because they aren't good enough.
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Why invest in the academy then?
 
doobyedoobye said:
What does the club gain by behaving so recklessly with youth development?
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Absolutely nothing, just potentially putting off kids coming here in the future & gaining a reputation in football for not giving kids a chance, which our enemies are jumping on, with glee & making sure it gets around.

Even if Sancho signs, it won't go away. Once we become a target for other clubs to steal players, they will all be at it.

Dead easy to fix. Just start giving kids a few mins here & there & reward any that perform well, with more time. Suddenly we will have a good percentage of kids involved the job is solved.

Leave it much longer & the rag machine will give us a rep that sticks.

Many on here are totally blasé, in fact raggishly arrogant about our academy. But plenty of us have been warning for years how this is coming. It will not stop with Sancho.
 
doobyedoobye said:
Why invest in the academy then?
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I'd imagine the first team performances in recent seasons have been way below the level expected, and thus the progression of the academy has lulled as well. It's easier to introduce young players when you're playing really well (or really terribly) but we've been in middling ground where we've not really been confident of killing any game off early.

There's also the income that the academy generates. Talk of Sancho bringing in £6m if he leaves and that's with never signing a pro contract. We've made tons on Unal and potentially Iheanacho this window. I personally don't want our academy to turn into a factory though - we should be aiming for quality rather than quantity.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Absolutely nothing, just potentially putting off kids coming here in the future & gaining a reputation in football for not giving kids a chance, which our enemies are jumping on, with glee & making sure it gets around.

Even if Sancho signs, it won't go away. Once we become a target for other clubs to steal players, they will all be at it.

Dead easy to fix. Just start giving kids a few mins here & there & reward any that perform well, with more time. Suddenly we will have a good percentage of kids involved the job is solved.

Leave it much longer & the rag machine will give us a rep that sticks.

Many on here are totally blasé, in fact raggishly arrogant about our academy. But plenty of us have been warning for years how this is coming. It will not stop with Sancho.
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I don't see why we invested so heavily in an academy and a global youth focused scouting network if ultimately there isn't a motivation at the club to give these younger players first team minutes.
 
doobyedoobye said:
Why invest in the academy then?
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Why do you think? Its a business in the long run it will make us a lot of money give players an education if they don't succeed at football and if they dont make our team they will play football with another club in premier lower leagues or in Europe, with the standards we set I'll say the majority of our academy players will be playing professional football for a club.
 
CityStu said:
I'd imagine the first team performances in recent seasons have been way below the level expected, and thus the progression of the academy has lulled as well. It's easier to introduce young players when you're playing really well (or really terribly) but we've been in middling ground where we've not really been confident of killing any game off early.

There's also the income that the academy generates. Talk of Sancho bringing in £6m if he leaves and that's with never signing a pro contract. We've made tons on Unal and potentially Iheanacho this window. I personally don't want our academy to turn into a factory though - we should be aiming for quality rather than quantity.
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If that is the vision of the academy then at least we know. It's a vehicle for creating additional revenue and not Manchester City first teamers.
 
waspish said:
We have give him 1st team involvement no other club in premier has done this with a lad who was 16 at the time personally he is great prospect but Foden and Diaz are just as good.
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I'm talking about Denayer.

First team involvement requires minutes on the pitch & Sancho has to earn that. Nothing wrong so far, with how we have treated Sancho the problem is that he should be convinced City is the best place for him, with all the investment we have put in, but he is either wavering, or going.

I don't think a kid wavers, if he's convinced he has a shot at playing for Pep Guardiola in the near future.

But if he looks at people like Barker & Denayer, who performed to.the highest level without getting a sniff, why not go somewhere else ?
 
Neville Kneville said:
I'm talking about Denayer.

First team involvement requires minutes on the pitch & Sancho has to earn that. Nothing wrong so far, with how we have treated Sancho the problem is that he should be convinced City is the best place for him, with all the investment we have put in, but he is either wavering, or going.

I don't think a kid wavers, if he's convinced he has a shot at playing for Pep Guardiola in the near future.

But if he looks at people like Barker & Denayer, who performed to.the highest level without getting a sniff, why not go somewhere else ?
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Ah right, your right about that I blame pellegrini who made the call to keep Demechellis
 
waspish said:
Ah right, your right about that I blame pellegrini who made the call to keep Demechellis
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Indeed, but Jack Byrne excelled in Holland & at City previously & never got a sniff after Pellegrini had gone, so it didn't change.

The latest is Pat Roberts. He HAS to be given a chance imo. If he can't force his way in, at least he's been given the natural lift his performances deserve.

It doesn't matter if he then gets moved on.
 
doobyedoobye said:
Is there a problem with the way the academy is run?
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Not imo.

I'm not sure about the raggy geezer we put in charge but I rate Wicox very highly.

I think the academy is fantastic & is producing scores of players good enough to be tried out in our first team. Then they hit a brick wall, with managers unwilling to take a gamble & using their lack of experience v adult players as an excuse.

But in most cases, it is actually an excuse.

The kids don't need to be first choice, just to get on the pitch here & there.

With so much money available, the managers just spend it instead. It's easier.
 
There need to be a new rule that every club should have at least 1 youth team player on the bench every game. Id go further and make a rule that 1 youth team player should start in the first 11 of every premier team but that will never happen.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Not imo.

I'm not sure about the raggy geezer we put in charge but I rate Wicox very highly.

I think the academy is fantastic & is producing scores of players good enough to be tried out in our first team. Then they hit a brick wall, with managers unwilling to take a gamble & using their lack of experience v adult players as an excuse.

But in most cases, it is actually an excuse.

The kids don't need to be first choice, just to get on the pitch here & there.

With so much money available, the managers just spend it instead. It's easier.
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Surely Pep will give them a chance this season? I simply don't understand if the answer is right in front of their faces and the Chairman / Owner wants the academy to feed the first team then why would this philosophy / system be continuously ignored and disrespected?
 
doobyedoobye said:
Surely Pep will give them a chance this season? I simply don't understand if the answer is right in front of their faces and the Chairman / Owner wants the academy to feed the first team then why would this philosophy / system be continuously ignored and disrespected?
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Because at City, the manager is in control & the club backs him.

I am hoping Pep will start to bring through kids, as I think the whole thing was designed for him to do that, but we have a problem now imo, that the academy has produced nothing for the first team & it's something we need to put straight by getting a few on the pitch, even if it's just late in games.
 
Neville Kneville said:
Because at City, the manager is in control & the club backs him.

I am hoping Pep will start to bring through kids, as I think the whole thing was designed for him to do that, but we have a problem now imo, that the academy has produced nothing for the first team & it's something we need to put straight by getting a few on the pitch, even if it's just late in games.
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If Pep was intending to bring through young players and focus on the long-term of the club, last season was clearly the time when that needed to be shown and I'm afraid but based on how he handled last season, there's little evidence to suggest that will be the case for the foreseeable future especially now that winning trophies will clearly be of a high priority this season. How many teams have operated with that long-term view of bringing through young players and been successful trophy-wise as a result. Of the last 10-15 years, I can only think of Barca with pep (with a golden generation of young players that is likely never to be seen again), dortmund and athletico madrid. Outside of those teams the most successful teams of the past 10 years have all been teams that operated with a short-term view of winning trophies and that is what I believe the current owners at city prioritise more than anything.

I genuinely thought bringing Pep in would signal the change from that focus into a more long-term one with bringing through youth/academy players but last season proved to me without doubt that it won't be the case. More talented, established young players are going to be bought for high fees while the ones already here are going to be moved on for some profit possibly with incentives installed in their transfers. That's just the way its going to be with the current climate of the game where money reigns supreme and you're going to be quickly left behind by other big teams who are all about winning trophies if you don't focus on the short-term. Football has changed drastically from the last 10 years with TV money where bottom half clubs can now splash upwards of 30 million on players and the likes of payet can end up at west ham. The competition level is not the same so you have to move with the times or risk being left behind. I would wish that not to be the case but I'm afraid that's what's happened as Real have proven the last couple of years in europe as well as chelsea domestically.
 
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