Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I suppose he is marginally to the right of Trotsky, so I can understand your reservations.
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Jo Swinson
- Thread starter urban genie
- Start date
W
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worsleyweb
Guest
Swinson is a tory with tits in a yellow dress.
Sounds perfect.
That's what Clegg said.
And you trust him?
I wouldn’t trust that **** as far as I could throw him and despite him being a little man, that’s still not very far.
Austerity and Tory policy accelerated after 2015 and Cameron has said this week that he felt austerity should have been greater in those first 5 years.
She sounds perfect.
Hahaha
Agreed we have much more to lose.
But they don't have nothing to lose. In order of priority, the EU would prefer:
1. We cancel Brexit and stay in - best
2. We leave on the terms of the shitty May deal
3. We leave with them giving us further concessions on the May deal
4. We leave with no deal - worst
Clearly whilst they expect the outcome to be either 1 or 2, then they are never going to offer us 3.
3 only becomes attractive to the EU if the alternative is 4.
I think you’ve confused what the UK wants with what the EU wants. The EU don’t want option 3, the UK does.
The EU feel option 2 is the most concessions they are willing to give without disrupting the integrity of the EU. The UK trying to use option 4 as a bargaining chip to get option 3 isn’t going to work. As others have mentioned if they offer us a good deal, other EU member states will leave too and that’s not in the EU interests, so option 4 to the would be preferable to the EU than option 3.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I think you’ve confused what the UK wants with what the EU wants. The EU don’t want option 3, the UK does.
Not sure you read or digested properly what I wrote? The EU want 3 less than 1 or 2. 3 is worse for the EU.
But 3 for the EU is better than 4 for the EU.
Not sure you read or digested properly what I wrote? The EU want 3 less than 1 or 2. 3 is worse for the EU.
But 3 for the EU is better than 4 for the EU.
No you’ve misunderstood my post.
Who says option 3 is better for the EU that option 4? That’s my point. I don’t think they do believe that for the reasons I gave.
west didsblue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 2 Oct 2011
- Messages
- 33,936
There's always 5. We extend and negotiate an EFTA/EEA Norway style Brexit and put that to the vote. That could only happen after Johnson's gone and a coalition take over. That's the end game for Labour I reckon.I think you’ve confused what the UK wants with what the EU wants. The EU don’t want option 3, the UK does.
The EU feel option 2 is the most concessions they are willing to give without disrupting the integrity of the EU. The UK trying to use option 4 as a bargaining chip to get option 3 isn’t going to work. As others have mentioned if they offer us a good deal, other EU member states will leave too and that’s not in the EU interests, so option 4 to the would be preferable to the EU than option 3.
There's always 5. We extend and negotiate an EFTA/EEA Norway style Brexit and put that to the vote. That could only happen after Johnson's gone and a coalition take over. That's the end game for Labour I reckon.
Yep that’s another option. Extending Brexit even longer. Can’t see Labour getting into power though, they are still trying to appeal to leave and remainers on Brexit. They’ll end up alienating both sets and lose out big time, is my opinion and I’m a labour voter.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
No you’ve misunderstood my post.
Who says option 3 is better for the EU that option 4? That’s my point. I don’t think they do believe that for the reasons I gave.
My apologies, I only scanned what you wrote and didn't take it in.
Yes, I see your point, and in fact it's a point I've made myself on many occasions in the past. The integrity of the EU is more important to the EU and its member states than anything else. I agree.
But that said, there's still room for manoeuvre in that there's possibility (imo) of a deal which doesn't stray so far into being "marvellous" that it encourages further break aways, but nevertheless it's still better for the UK than what's currently on the table.
Make no bones about it, whilst there's no doubt "no deal" is really bad for the UK and much worse than it is for the EU, it's still bad for the EU. They do not want us leaving with no deal. It's the only bargaining chip we have. Or had.
Here is how Swinson has voted
FOR
The Bedroom Tax
Reduced benefits for the disabled
Tripling tuition fees
Selling UK forests
Reforms to allow privatisations of the NHS
Culling Badgers
Privatisation of Royal Mail
Restricting Legal Aid
A NO DEAL BREXIT
AGAINST
The Mansion Tax
A bankers bonus levy
Increasing taxes for those on over £150,000
Against raising sickness benefits in line with inflation
Regulation of Fracking
Transferring powers to Scotland
Slowing rises in Rail fares.
And people are buying, the centrist nonsense, she is an Orange book liberal, to the right of the Tories. Don't trust her.
Shirley everyone can get behind the culling of badgers
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I'd rather the LibDems had not gone for a Revoke position tbh. Whilst I am a Remainer, I think having let the cat out of the bag and had a referendum, if we're going to cancel it, then morally I think we're duty bound to only do so if the public vote for that. Just cancelling it is not on, irrespective of the circumstances imo. Whilst I think they'll get a lot of votes, I think they would have got even more if they were promising a referendum and a strong campaign to remain, unlike Labour's wishy-washy "let's see how the polls look" bullshit.Yep that’s another option. Extending Brexit even longer. Can’t see Labour getting into power though, they are still trying to appeal to leave and remainers on Brexit. They’ll end up alienating both sets and lose out big time, is my opinion and I’m a labour voter.
But either way, the LibDems will surely pick up loads of votes from Tory Remainers who cannot bear the prospect of voting for Corbyn (understandably) and also from Labour voters who feel the same - and don't underestimate how many of them there are.
The super irony which is seemingly lost on the hard left loonies, is that Corbyn, the man they regard as Labour's saviour, is the one person (actually there's two - John McDonnell as well) who could and very will might keep the Tories in government.
To all intents and purposes 5 is the same as 1There's always 5. We extend and negotiate an EFTA/EEA Norway style Brexit and put that to the vote. That could only happen after Johnson's gone and a coalition take over. That's the end game for Labour I reckon.
Rascal
El Presidente
The super irony which is seemingly lost on the hard left loonies, is that Corbyn, the man they regard as Labour's saviour, is the one person (actually there's two - John McDonnell as well) who could and very will might keep the Tories in government.
Hard left loonies, you are mellowing.
The only people who will keep Johnson in power are the FBPE remainiacs who fall for Swinson's nonsense. Now that it irony.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
That's true as well.Hard left loonies, you are mellowing.
The only people who will keep Johnson in power are the FBPE remainiacs who fall for Swinson's nonsense. Now that it irony.
But face it mate, your "leader" is toxic to most humans. That's Labour's biggest challenge.
Toxic politicians who are not doing too badly with "most humans" well at least those who voted for them.That's true as well.
But face it mate, your "leader" is toxic to most humans. That's Labour's biggest challenge.
Trump
Johnson
Farage
Putin
Erdogan
Zuriblue
Well-Known Member
You dont think its true?
Next week she will share with the nation how she fed 5 thousand starving at her local food bank with just 5 loaves and 2 small fishes.
What a gal!
She has got you rattled, hasn't she. It's like the wingnuts in the States and Occasio-Cortez.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
You seem to have missed one rather important differentiator. The above characters (Johnson aside), whilst deeply unappealing to outside observers, are actually appealing as a far as their electorates, i.e. voters, are concerned. Unlike Jeremy, who has core support amongst Labour party members, but the wider public (and his MPs for that matter) think he's a twat.Toxic politicians who are not doing too badly with "most humans" well at least those who voted for them.
Trump
Johnson
Farage
Putin
Erdogan
Hard left loonies, you are mellowing.
The only people who will keep Johnson in power are the FBPE remainiacs who fall for Swinson's nonsense. Now that it irony.
I don’t like this rhetoric to be honest.
I’ll be voting for Labour I think, however I do need to check my constituency a little closer as it seems that Labour are dead there and it’s either LibDem or Tory.
Anyway it’s probably Labour that will get my vote but it seems like a lot of Labour voters are scoffing at the Libs for having a chance and getting people to vote for them. Sort of a “how dare you be a serious challenger, this is our election” and democracy shouldn’t be that. The FBPE types, as you refer, are entitled to vote for whoever they want and they shouldn’t get behind Corbyn if they don’t like his policies or wish to.
Brexit is the biggest issue facing the country by a country mile. It’s going to determine our nation’s progression and standing in the world for the next few decades and has the potential to ruin lives. “Remainacs” wanting to put a blunt end to the issue are well within their right to end the madness if there’s a vote either in a GE or referendum, to do so.
For two long our politics has been dominated by the two party system and we’ve cried out for a change to that.
There’s been a feeling on this forum of anger towards the LibDems for trying to manoeuvre themselves into an electable party. Well Labour have done exactly the same, as has every other party. Swinson’s “bullshit” is actually clear policy on what they stand for. She hates Brexit and wants it gone ASAP and will do so if elected. If people don’t like then don’t elect her, it’s that simple.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
She has got you rattled, hasn't she. It's like the wingnuts in the States and Occasio-Cortez.
More a figure of amusement whose sheer hypocrisy I like to point out on here.
Cortez? States? WTF are you waffling on about?