Jo Swinson

[M18CTID]

Nick Clegg didn't win an election though (and neither will Jo Swinson).

This seems to get overlooked when Clegg gets roundly criticised for supposedly "going back" on his promise to scrap tuition fees. As the minority in a coalition government, he was never going to get that one through in a million years yet people actually expected him to. Whether he was sincere in his pledge is another question entirely and we'll never know the answer to that.

 

[cibaman]

A simple answer would be democracy does not stand still and any vote is a snapshot of the debate at that given moment in time. As Keynes said "when the facts change I change my mind" and that can be applied universally to any democratic decision. If it didn't we would have permanent government which would in effect would be anti-democratic.

Although this would be a case of someone else deciding to change your mind for you.

 

[M18CTID]

Good point.
However whether it'll be a sure fire way of gaining extra votes is very debatable.

The country is still divided roughly 50 50 leave/remain.
As a sometime lib dems voter this policy change is off putting.

I'm now almost certain to vote Labour again.

Yep. This could lose them as many votes as it gains

 

[Turks Head Again]

Lib dems will be lucky to win 20 seats.
Who would trust them after their pathetic stint as a coalition government ?

 

[Rascal]

Although this would be a case of someone else deciding to change your mind for you.

Depends on how many minds are changed. Mine would never be changed enough to vote for the Lib Dems.

 

[Ban-jani]

Lib dems will be lucky to win 20 seats.
Who would trust them after their pathetic stint as a coalition government ?

Things rapidly change in politics and we’re not in normal times.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Lib dems will be lucky to win 20 seats.
Who would trust them after their pathetic stint as a coalition government ?

Just read a article in the New Statesman, it's main points are....

The Liberal Democrats have officially made it their party policy to revoke Article 50 if they win a majority at the next election, in a move that they hope will cement their position as “the strongest party of remain”....

It seems to be a gamble the Liberal Democrats didn’t need to take. They have already comfortably established themselves as the party of Remain

It may be obvious to the Liberal Democrats that revoke is a pipe dream and the realistic probability is a second referendum in coalition, but it isn’t obvious to the public, who would see it as a case of voting for one thing and getting another, a reputation that the Lib Dems are still trying to shake off from the coalition years.

The Liberal Democrats are banking on the advantage of a clear message and a polarised public. But this is a risk they didn’t need to take.

........................................

Any half decent election campaign by the Tories and Labour will blow this Lib Dem foolishness out of the water. Even if you know you're not going to be a party of government, promising stuff, not on its merits (this policy gives the finger to millions of leave voters, it would be a catastrophe) but for no other reason than to appeal to a specific chunk of the electorate (remain voters, who might be tempted to vote Labour), knowing you'll never be in government to deliver it, is the kind of childish simple lie, even the dumbest of voters will understand.

Why not promise free sex, beer and chips? Even leavers might vote for that?

 

[Tanzeylee]

promising stuff because it is appealing, knowing you'll never be in government to deliver it, is the kind of childish simple lie, even the dumbest of voters will understand./

Jeremy corbyn likes this

 

[west didsblue]

Any half decent election campaign by the Tories and Labour will blow this Lib Dem foolishness out of the water.

When did that last happen?
With Johnson and Corbyn as the two leaders, are you really expecting it to happen this time?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Lib Dem conference: Chuka Umunna attacks Jeremy Corbyn for 'illiberal' leadership

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49714730

Chuka Umunna has launched a scathing attack on his former leader, Jeremy Corbyn, accusing him of "lauding authoritarian regimes".

The Liberal Democrat MP left Labour in March over its position on Brexit and handling of anti-Semitism allegations.

The foreign affairs spokesman used his speech at party conference to condemn Mr Corbyn for allowing his supporters to "abuse" and "vilify" his critics.

And he said neither the Labour leader or Boris Johnson were "fit to rule".

Lib Dems 'would not prop up Johnson or Corbyn government'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49717388

The Liberal Democrat leader, Jo Swinson, has ruled out entering into a coalition with the Conservatives or the Labour Party if a general election delivers a hung Parliament.

Ms Swinson insisted that neither Boris Johnson nor Jeremy Corbyn was "fit to be our prime minister".

She said: "I'm not going to support Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn, They are not up to the job."

And she said she wanted the party to win more than 300 seats in an election.

To secure a majority in the House of Commons, a party has to win more seats than all the other parties put together. At the moment, that means winning at least 326 seats - more to ensure a comfortable majority.

She dismissed the view that the Liberal Democrats were unlikely to win more than 300 seats.

"I reject this suggestion that you go into a general election campaign, particularly in these volatile political times and somehow people have to accept they don't have a genuine choice.

"They do not have to choose between Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn because frankly that choice is not good enough. Neither of those men is fit to be our prime minister."

Asked if she would act as "kingmaker" for the Conservatives or Labour in the event of a hung Parliament, Ms Swinson said: "I'm not going to support Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn to be prime minister."
..................

Yeah right.

 

[The perfect fumble]

When did that last happen?
With Johnson and Corbyn as the two leaders, are you really expecting it to happen this time?

What to happen?

 

[west didsblue]

What to happen?

Either major party to run a half decent campaign.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Either major party to run a half decent campaign.

Labour's campaign in 2017 took them from 25% to 40% in the poll, even the blairites were stunned, they expected a wipe out, Labour added seats and votes when everyone predicted the opposite.

Don't come back with "they didn't win it!" No one, not even me, thought there was any chance of that. May was over 40% in the polls going in to that election, she was confident of a healthy majority, that's why she called it.

Corbyn was going to be humbled and his party would ditch him, that was the narrative.

Even Corbyn's fiercest critics grudgingly admire that campaign, had it lasted a week longer there could have been a very different result.

Hate Corbyn if you want, criticise him all you like, but 2017 was a great campaign for Labour.

We're still in the EU because of what Labour achieved in 2017.

 

[hilts]

Can anyone explain how democratic it is to ignore a democratic vote and I speak as someone who voted to remain. Am I missing something, the country voted to leave so why is a mainstream party voting to ignore the wishes of the country?

To grab the centre ground and emerge from a spell in the wilderness. Politically it makes sense and anyone trying to claim the moral high ground in this shit show would be taking the piss somewhat.

 

[hilts]

Labour's campaign in 2017 took them from 25% to 40% in the poll, even the blairites were stunned, they expected a wipe out, Labour added seats and votes when everyone predicted the opposite.

Don't come back with "they didn't win it!" No one, not even me, thought there was any chance of that. May was over 40% in the polls going in to that election, she was confident of a healthy majority, that's why she called it.

Corbyn was going to be humbled and his party would ditch him, that was the narrative.

Even Corbyn's fiercest critics grudgingly admire that campaign, had it lasted a week longer there could have been a very different result.

Hate Corbyn if you want, criticise him all you like, but 2017 was a great campaign for Labour.

We're still in the EU because of what Labour achieved in 2017.

Plucky losers

 

[Ban-jani]

Labour's campaign in 2017 took them from 25% to 40% in the poll, even the blairites were stunned, they expected a wipe out, Labour added seats and votes when everyone predicted the opposite.

Don't come back with "they didn't win it!" No one, not even me, thought there was any chance of that. May was over 40% in the polls going in to that election, she was confident of a healthy majority, that's why she called it.

Corbyn was going to be humbled and his party would ditch him, that was the narrative.

Even Corbyn's fiercest critics grudgingly admire that campaign, had it lasted a week longer there could have been a very different result.

Hate Corbyn if you want, criticise him all you like, but 2017 was a great campaign for Labour.

We're still in the EU because of what Labour achieved in 2017.

This is totally true, albeit with some hope for May.

I expect Labour to win but I don’t begrudge the LibDems for coming out for revoke.

 

[journolud]

They are unlikely to win a big enough majority but if they do I wonder if they will spend 3 years deciding what sort of revoke to have or whether it might in fact be a whole lot simpler than trying to solve the leave conundrum.

 

[hilts]

They are unlikely to win a big enough majority but if they do I wonder if they will spend 3 years deciding what sort of revoke to have or whether it might in fact be a whole lot simpler than trying to solve the leave conundrum.

The problem with remaining is people don’t know what they are voting for and have been lied to by the status quo and EU lap dog media. I advise remainers to do their homework before they drag us all down with them.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Labour's campaign in 2017 took them from 25% to 40% in the poll, even the blairites were stunned, they expected a wipe out, Labour added seats and votes when everyone predicted the opposite.

Don't come back with "they didn't win it!" No one, not even me, thought there was any chance of that. May was over 40% in the polls going in to that election, she was confident of a healthy majority, that's why she called it.

Corbyn was going to be humbled and his party would ditch him, that was the narrative.

Even Corbyn's fiercest critics grudgingly admire that campaign, had it lasted a week longer there could have been a very different result.

Hate Corbyn if you want, criticise him all you like, but 2017 was a great campaign for Labour.

We're still in the EU because of what Labour achieved in 2017.

True but, brexit was still a concept and many voters just assumed some compromise deal would get done. There was not much momentum for the remain cause at that time and the choice was Tory leave or Labour Leave. Lib Dem's were defined by the coalition and remain a distant prospect. Voting Labour was for many a way of putting the brakes on the Tories and how extreme they would take things without necessarily getting a Labor government.

This time Brexit is very real and there is not much of a middle ground. The problem for both Tory and Labour is they both have parties offering more extreme versions of leave or remain. If they both lose the extreme remainer / brexiteers then that is bad for both and neither will win a majority.

 

[journolud]

The problem with remaining is people don’t know what they are voting for and have been lied to by the status quo and EU lap dog media. I advise remainers to do their homework before they drag us all down with them.

Sure