Jo Swinson

[Ban-jani]

Why does it bother you if he was, which he was, or as he termed it "the third way" a kind of ordoliberal doctorine popularized in germany at the start of the 20th century modernised forthe 90s

Because it’s important to be accurate and honest and not describe things as they’re not.

The rest of your post is beneath you in terms of
what you’re insinuating.

This “socialist or evil” rhetoric is fucking idiotic.

 

[blueinsa]

Correct, if I had the choice of a Blairite or a Communist, I would vote Communist, but if there was a Socialist standing they would be my first choice.

Fair enough.

Would be interesting to see who you think are genuine socialists within this current Labour party?

 

[urban genie]

Because it’s important to be accurate and honest and not describe things as they’re not.

The rest of your post is beneath you in terms of
what you’re insinuating.

This “socialist or evil” rhetoric is fucking idiotic.

None of what I say is wrong, read up on itBlair was the poster boy for the third way political ideology which is considered beo-liberal.

The rest of my post is also true ordoliberalism and the progressive movement of the early 1900s and 1950s first came up with the idea of a different way to conservatism and socilacism that tried to marry the two but wasn't classic liberalism out of that another ideal neo-liberalism sprang which is where new labour nestled on the leftest point of it while the tories embraced the rightest side

And what was I insinuating btw?

 

[Rascal]

Fair enough.

I did call you a Communist in good faith and it wasn’t a dig.

You once told me in person you were communist but that was many years ago.

I have Communist leanings definitely. I see the good in common ownership of land and property, maybe because I am not materialistic and never have been,

I just cant be done with neo-liberalism, it is anathema to everything I believe. I have considered writing a book about my idea's, even have a working title "Societism" which is a mix of ideas based on humanity and the common good. How people are best when they collaborate and how the cult of the individual has been so damaging to society. I am probably far more collectivist though, I am not particularly liberal, and probably more small c Conservative in some ways and Blue Labour interested me for a while because of its values. I am a weird hotch potch of positions in reality but would always in this country vote for a Socialist as they reflect the majority of my beliefs.

 

[Rascal]

Fair enough.

Would be interesting to see who you think are genuine socialists within this current Labour party?

Mcdonell defo, Corbyn, Long-Bailey, others are to varying degrees I suppose. I mean I don't agree with Corbyn and Mcdonell on everything

 

[meltonblue]

Some of them individually might well be (closer aligned rather to the right). Again though, the manifesto was more similar to Labour on taxes, borrowing and investment than it was the tories.

The problem at the minute is more people are into identity politics than actual policies and the main parties are reacting to it. The Lib Dem’s aren’t not willing to work with corbyn because of his policies, more that they’re not wanting to risk losing all the voters that personally have a problem with him (which is more than there should be), both from the tories and labour.

I do think with this though if it comes to a position where they have to to stop no deal, they will back Corbyn. They’re right to say the Tory rebels still won’t though anyway.

Just to prove that a little, I got sent the link to “I side with” earlier today, which I hadn’t seen before, it’s results for me for the main political parties were 89% Greens (which surprised me!), 87% lib dems, 87% Labour as well, then only 48% for conservatives.

 

[Rascal]

Just to prove that a little, I got sent the link to “I side with” earlier today, which I hadn’t seen before, it’s results for me for the main political parties were 89% Greens (which surprised me!), 87% lib dems, 87% Labour as well, then only 48% for conservatives.

I have seen that, it is surprising how many people who consider themselves right wing have pretty left wing outcomes.

 

[meltonblue]

I have seen that, it is surprising how many people who consider themselves right wing have pretty left wing outcomes.

It goes back to what I was saying earlier, I don’t think a lot of people really consider the policies properly, just go off what they perceive them to be (which personally I am guilty of with the greens). It does show though that the Lib Dem’s and labour are closer than some think too - I was rated strongly agree against both for economy as well as social.

Thankfully the conservatives bit was as low as I expected it to be!

 

[urban genie]

Just to prove that a little, I got sent the link to “I side with” earlier today, which I hadn’t seen before, it’s results for me for the main political parties were 89% Greens (which surprised me!), 87% lib dems, 87% Labour as well, then only 48% for conservatives.

I have done that, always comes out 94/95% green or labour

 

[Churchlawtonblue]

I have Communist leanings definitely. I see the good in common ownership of land and property, maybe because I am not materialistic and never have been,

I just cant be done with neo-liberalism, it is anathema to everything I believe. I have considered writing a book about my idea's, even have a working title "Societism" which is a mix of ideas based on humanity and the common good. How people are best when they collaborate and how the cult of the individual has been so damaging to society. I am probably far more collectivist though, I am not particularly liberal, and probably more small c Conservative in some ways and Blue Labour interested me for a while because of its values. I am a weird hotch potch of positions in reality but would always in this country vote for a Socialist as they reflect the majority of my beliefs.

Good post fella. I'm towards the other end of the spectrum but I do believe in fair taxation. A decent public health service without privatisation. And equal distribution of UK spending. I also dont believe in privatising monopolies.

 

[Len Rum]

Does anyone know what the Lib Dem's domestic policies are?

 

[hilts]

Does anyone know what the Lib Dem's domestic policies are?

As a rule less heartless than the Tories less gullible than labour, kind of be nice but consider ones wallet, very beige. Think give a tenner on Red Nose Day but don’t sign any long term charity direct debits unless the savings account is looking healthy.

 

[meltonblue]

Does anyone know what the Lib Dem's domestic policies are?

That’s exactly my point. I think if a lot of people had read the 2017 manifesto, they’d find a lot they’d agree with.

 

[Ban-jani]

None of what I say is wrong, read up on itBlair was the poster boy for the third way political ideology which is considered beo-liberal.

The rest of my post is also true ordoliberalism and the progressive movement of the early 1900s and 1950s first came up with the idea of a different way to conservatism and socilacism that tried to marry the two but wasn't classic liberalism out of that another ideal neo-liberalism sprang which is where new labour nestled on the leftest point of it while the tories embraced the rightest side

And what was I insinuating btw?

I know all about Third Way politics thank you. I’ve even presented to a room of people on its merits and shortcomings.

You were purposefully bringing up early 20th century Germany as a way of linking Centrism to extremes.

 

[Ban-jani]

I have Communist leanings definitely. I see the good in common ownership of land and property, maybe because I am not materialistic and never have been,

I just cant be done with neo-liberalism, it is anathema to everything I believe. I have considered writing a book about my idea's, even have a working title "Societism" which is a mix of ideas based on humanity and the common good. How people are best when they collaborate and how the cult of the individual has been so damaging to society. I am probably far more collectivist though, I am not particularly liberal, and probably more small c Conservative in some ways and Blue Labour interested me for a while because of its values. I am a weird hotch potch of positions in reality but would always in this country vote for a Socialist as they reflect the majority of my beliefs.

As am I mate, there’s few people if any, that I’ve met that share my entire political position.

I’m economically fairly left wing but have some conservative social views. I’m fully behind the LGBT community, which you could say isn’t conservative but then I’m a lot more tougher on crime than the current Tory Government. I’d actually extend antisocial behaviour laws and wouldn’t tolerate the dick head culture we see today. But then I’m for the right to protest and the rights of the individual so I contradict myself again.

It’s a real tough one and that’s why I tend to identify with Centrism a lot, because I really have to look at every specific part of politics and make a decision there and then on what to do, rather than just following a leftist or ring wing handbook.

Interestingly, despite the last paragraph, I much prefer Labour’s manifesto than the LibDems’s.

 

[urban genie]

I know all about Third Way politics thank you. I’ve even presented to a room of people on its merits and shortcomings.

You were purposefully bringing up early 20th century Germany as a way of linking Centrism to extremes.

No I wasn't

Most modern political idealism springs from the mid 19th to early 20th century philosothical thinking, from the mild to the extreme.

To see the 1843 - 1910 period as just extremist beliefs is very short sighted in my opinion.

Also I think many, not necessarly you, mix up the difference between left thinking and liberal thinking.

You can be tough on crime and law and order and be the most socialist person around, conservatism hasn't got a monopoly in a lot of things they have framed as their ideals

 

[jay_mcfc]

That’s exactly my point. I think if a lot of people had read the 2017 manifesto, they’d find a lot they’d agree with.

If people went of a manifesto Labour would have got 40m votes last time.

 

[Rascal]

Also I think many, not necessarly you, mix up the difference between left thinking and liberal thinking.

This is a common misnomer, people getting leftism and liberalism mixed up. As a leftist I am not particular Liberal. It is possibly because of the Americanisation of our politics where the Democrats are seen as Liberals.

 

[west didsblue]

As a rule less heartless than the Tories less gullible than labour, kind of be nice but consider ones wallet, very beige. Think give a tenner on Red Nose Day but don’t sign any long term charity direct debits unless the savings account is looking healthy.

Sounds a reasonable approach.

 

[Ban-jani]

No I wasn't

Most modern political idealism springs from the mid 19th to early 20th century philosothical thinking, from the mild to the extreme.

To see the 1843 - 1910 period as just extremist beliefs is very short sighted in my opinion.

Also I think many, not necessarly you, mix up the difference between left thinking and liberal thinking.

You can be tough on crime and law and order and be the most socialist person around, conservatism hasn't got a monopoly in a lot of things they have framed as their ideals

Absolutely you’re correct and apologies if you weren’t using early Germany to be hyperbolic.

I agree, socially and economically are vastly different points and being authoritative or liberal has no bearing on what you believe economically. Stalin was closer to Hitler socially than he was Marx, for example.

That’s why in my point to Rasc I said my politics are quite rare as a whole. I’m economically Social Democrat but socially I have a mixture of left and right politics.

Labour’s manifesto appeals to me but then again I’m often at odds with the membership.