Joe Hart and Fernando blunder analysis,

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NipHolmes

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Putting myself out there with this post, hope you agree with my post and find it informative.

Joe has the ball and places it on the right hand side of the 6 yard box. Straight away a bad move as PSG then move as a unit knowing the ball will either go to Otamendi, Fernando or be kicked upfield, centrally or to the right flank. The ball should always be placed centrally if a team has a high press.

The pass was feeble, and it was telegraphed by Ibrahimovic. Joe signals for him to pass to Otamendi, who was being zoned in by Cavani. I dont understand why Hart chose to pass the equivalent of a grenade to Fernando with the danger of one of the most inform strikers in the world a few yards away.

Fernando's first touch was utterly woeful, he also had put the ball further into the path danger zone for Ibrahimovic. Communication was woeful, the first controlling touch even worse and for the life of me I do not understand why Fernando was so deep. He isn't a deep lying playmaker and he isn't the quickest on the turn either. For this strategy Fernandinho would've been a wiser choice but the whole move was wrong. It was lacksadaisical and it was complacent, it is the kind of play you WILL NOT see next season under Pep, period.

The build up play was basically a 5v3, but Joe Hart gave away play with that pass, it is a criminal decision to make. Wrong player, too slow, Fernando was square and once he recieved would either pass back, pivot or try and shield from Ibra, just so needless to do. I blame delegate 50/50 to Joe and Fernando, both made terrible decisions and both in my opinion are not 'Pep players', football is all about fine margins gifting goals away like that undoes the great work the attackers do. Most of our play starts from the back, then to the middle which is where magic is created, a cohesive and fluid unit starts with understanding, communication, positioning and drills. Pellegrini is failing us, the fact we are favourites to go into the semi finals with him in charge is a testament to the strength of our team. We may flatter to devieve but last night was a good result, and the mistakes I see are too frequent to be 'just one of them things', I wholeheartedly believe Pellegrini is to blame for the setup, the wide CBs with a holding mid dropping deep is common in possession teams, but the continous chnaging of personnel means everyone has to be on the same page, we are not. The shape is all wrong and the midfielders were not even set up for a Fernando pass adequately. If in doubt, or under pressure, keep it simple and send upfield, we may loss possession but at least we dont give away a goal like that.

A few final thoughts, which interlink. This blunder was very similar to the one with Nastasic v Chelsea iirc. I did not like the way Joe blamed both players for the blunder neither. It was he, who started each move off both were doomed to fail. We dont need to 'shore up', we need to f*****g think about what we are doing, play with our brains more and get behind each other, don't leave your team-mate on his knees whilst you nonchelantly walk back to the goal with some daft disbelief grin.

Thoughts?
 
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NipHolmes said:
Putting myself out there with this post, hope you agree with my post and find it informative.

Joe has the ball and places it on the right hand side of the 6 yard box. Straight away a bad move as PSG then move as a unit knowing the ball will either go to Otamendi, Fernando or be kicked upfield, centrally or to the right flank. The ball should always be placed centrally if a team has a high press.

The pass was feeble, and it was telegraphed by Ibrahimovic. Joe signals for him to pass to Otamendi, who was being zoned in by Cavani. I dont understand why Hart chose to pass the equivalent of a grenade to Fernando with the danger of one of the most inform strikers in the world a few yards away.

Fernando's first touch was utterly woeful, he also had put the ball further into the path danger zone for Ibrahimovic. Communication was woeful, the first controlling touch even worse and for the life of me I do not understand why Fernando was so deep. He isn't a deep lying playmaker and he isn't the quickest on the turn either. For this strategy Fernando would've been a wiser choice but the whole move was wrong. It was lacksadaisical and it was complacent, it is the kind of play you WILL NOT see next season under Pep, period.

The build up play was basically a 5v3, but Joe Hart gave away play with that pass, it is a criminal decision to make. Wrong player, too slow, Fernando was square and once he recieved would either pass back, pivot or try and shield from Ibra, just so needless to do. I blame delegate 50/50 to Joe and Fernando, both made terrible decisions and both in my opinion are not 'Pep players', football is all about fine margins gifting goals away like that undoes the great work the attackers do. Most of our play starts from the back, then to the middle which is where magic is created, a cohesive and fluid unit starts with understanding, communication, positioning and drills. Pellegrini is failing us, the fact we are favourites to go into the semi finals with him in charge is a testament to the strength of our team. We may flatter to devieve but last night was a good result, and the mistakes I see are too frequent to be 'just one of them things', I wholeheartedly believe Pellegrini is to blame for the setup, the wide CBs with a holding mid dropping deep is common in possession teams, but the continous chnaging of personnel means everyone has to be on the same page, we are not. The shape is all wrong and the midfielders were not even set up for a Fernando pass adequately. If in doubt, or under pressure, keep it simple and send upfield, we may loss possession but at least we dont give away a goal like that.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Analysed to death elsewhere
 
If it was just last night I might have blamed Fernando. However, the incident wasn’t that different to the shambles that led to Hart getting injured three weeks ago. He also made a similar mistake against Liverpool last October, and without trying too hard I can recall other situations, that tend to get forgotten by the majority. if the errors aren’t punished
 
Best to just say "one of those things" and forget about it.

Joe makes very few mistakes and far fewer than our outfield players and did save a penalty, and Fernando had a solid game other than that.

So we should let them off.
 
spot on and said it last night we should know the stuff by now when a team press you don't pass it out clear your lines wave the players up field and then kick it I would question the manager on the line he should be waving and shouting to the players get out get out

we need to learn how to slow the game down there was no need to kick it to a player on the edge of the box. lets waste some time wave the players up field kick it to the touch line and that way we win the header or win a throw in. its a part of the game we need to work on go down roll about just take the min's of the clock the teams in Europe do it all the time so we must learn it
 
Scaring Europe to Death said:
If it was just last night I might have blamed Fernando. However, the incident wasn’t that different to the shambles that led to Hart getting injured three weeks ago. He also made a similar mistake against Liverpool last October, and without trying too hard I can recall other situations, that tend to get forgotten by the majority. if the errors aren’t punished
Click to expand...

He did it v united too, to MDM when Rashford pressed him iirc.


KippaxCitizen said:
Best to just say "one of those things" and forget about it.

Joe makes very few mistakes and far fewer than our outfield players and did save a penalty, and Fernando had a solid game other than that.

So we should let them off.
Click to expand...

Joe makes his share of mistakes, but covers cracks because he is so good at shotstopping.
 
Fernando 1st touch is usually a tackle , why he even approached for the ball in that position with the big ugly Swede in proximity is beyond belief , and Joe must witness Fernando in training everyday and can surely see he is incompetent when it comes to ball control , he's a "water carrier" , he wins the ball and gives it to someone who can play , both players should be apportioned with part of the blame . But as usual the media have jumped on possibly the only negative in a decent performance , this thread should be f*cked off , we have had enough drama queens analysing "The Fernando Incident".
 
Fernando's mistake entirely for me, the first rule any defensive player is taught is NEVER play the ball across your own box.

He shouldn't have been in any danger from Ibrahimovic, all he had to do was turn the opposite direction and he would have had his body between Ibra and the ball which would have given him time to see Otamendi or play it back to Hart without any possibility of an interception.

Body position is the single most important aspect of retaining possession, Silva is the absolute master of it despite his size and lack of speed he always has time and space on the ball because defenders can't get to the ball without going through his ankles.
 
ancoats said:
spot on and said it last night we should know the stuff by now when a team press you don't pass it out clear your lines wave the players up field and then kick it I would question the manager on the line he should be waving and shouting to the players get out get out

we need to learn how to slow the game down there was no need to kick it to a player on the edge of the box. lets waste some time wave the players up field kick it to the touch line and that way we win the header or win a throw in. its a part of the game we need to work on go down roll about just take the min's of the clock the teams in Europe do it all the time so we must learn it
Click to expand...

Agree totally.

If I am Joe, and after the bad placement of the ball initially. I would slow down, have a look around. Realise Ibra is in contention for the Fernando pass and Cavani is covering Otamendi and also ready to screen on the left wing. The short pass to make was one to Mangala.

The bad pass was one directly on the edge of the box, a slow ball to a square player being preyed upon by one of the worlds best CFs. It was a god awful decision.

As you say, if in doubt send upfield. Maybe put out for a throw in deep into their final third.
 
I'm not sure its worth apportioning blame among individual players. As a team we're not very good at playing the ball out from the back so not really surprising that we make errors.
 
fatbloke said:
Fernando's mistake entirely for me, the first rule any defensive player is taught is NEVER play the ball across your own box.

He shouldn't have been in any danger from Ibrahimovic, all he had to do was turn the opposite direction and he would have had his body between Ibra and the ball which would have given him time to see Otamendi or play it back to Hart without any possibility of an interception.
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Why did he pass the ball to Fernando's right foot, with Ibra coming in from his right ?

That's what I don't understand. I mean Hart can't pass for shit so you would think he would be careful in case he overhit it, like he often does.

Most of the replays showed Otamendi with a white ring round him, which I suspect is prrhaps the French tv wondering why he wasn't passing to him rather than Fernando with a bunch of oppo players behind him.

Crap from both imo.
 
fatbloke said:
Fernando's mistake entirely for me, the first rule any defensive player is taught is NEVER play the ball across your own box.

He shouldn't have been in any danger from Ibrahimovic, all he had to do was turn the opposite direction and he would have had his body between Ibra and the ball which would have given him time to see Otamendi or play it back to Hart without any possibility of an interception.
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Agree to an extent but pass was slow, he was square on and Otamendi was in a position where he was a risky option due to Cavani. Fernando first touch killed any hope of controlling the situation and covering the danger. He waa as bad as the decision to pass to him initially. At best he plays back to Hart, then what, back to square one. Had he pivoted and somehow got away from Ibra, there weren't that many options for him ahead and he is a simple passer, not of the ilk of Yaya who is the ideal player for this play
 
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For me Hart should have the match experience and intelligence to see that with 4 minutes till half time 1-0 up in Paris that this was and is a mistake waiting to happen. It's not like we do it every goal kick. As much as I hate the cross field ball to Sagna at that time in this fixture, I'd cope.
The pass was also weak, and closed down Fernando's options. The pass was right into him, not a good ball at all. The touch didn't help, but he was left with a blind pass to his left, our right. Alternative an awkward out side of boot or left footed blind ball to his right, our left.
Joe should know better and see that even in the best outcome, we'd have been under pressure.
Not sure why he wasn't back in a better position either. Could he have saved it?
I won't absolve Fernando, it was a fairly basic skill required not to end the way it did. He should also know and understand game management.

If it were a practice we repeatedly use, I'd understand but half the time we just look for the Sagna flick on. Last night, at that time was time for the Sagna flick on.
 
OP I think your bang on the money. Joe tells Fernando were to pass next. ( pointing like macmanamn used to) Fernando is facing the goal, his back to the play, terrible mistake by fernando with his touch but a woefully insane pass from joe. If he wanted Fernando to go wide right then why the feck didn't he pass it there in the first instance. Joe can see who's behind Fernando and Fernando can't. Awful touch and gives away a goal. Joe gave Fernando the grenade and fernando fumbled and pulled the pin out! Boom! Like you say OP and I totally agree,that we don't play with our brains. Some of the savvy football intelligence is missing. Maybe with more huge game experience this will come but sometimes we seem to be playing percentages rather than actually thinking two, three moves ahead. All said and done we came away with a great result. It could of been better when we stop playing pass the parcel with grenades. Haha.
 
Midfield player on edge of box receives pass which he cocks up. Goal. Now the reason why a midfield player is on the edge of the box is to receive the ball to initiate movement up the pitch otherwise why is he there? Given that he is there to receive the ball he should be ready for the ball. He wasn't or took his eye off it or whatever. The mistake lies with Fernando.
 
NipHolmes said:
Agree totally.

If I am Joe, and after the bad placement of the ball initially. I would slow down, have a look around. Realise Ibra is in contention for the Fernando pass and Cavani is covering Otamendi and also ready to screen on the left wing. The short pass to make was one to Mangala.

The bad pass was one directly on the edge of the box, a slow ball to a square player being preyed upon by one of the worlds best CFs. It was a god awful decision.

As you say, if in doubt send upfield. Maybe put out for a throw in deep into their final third.
Click to expand...
Ibra was 15 yards away from turdnando he had plenty of time to past it to sagna,he turned into ibra instead of going the other way.
 
I'd say Joe didn't see Zlatan until a split-second after he'd passed it and Fernando in turn didn't know Zlatan was there. Couple that with him not expecting the ball from Joe and it's a recipe for disaster... We were still incredibly unlucky with how the ball ricocheted into the net, however if I'm being hypercritical Joe could've been quicker in moving back to cover his goal, although again with him not expecting the ball to end up heading into his goal he seemingly had no reason to do so.

We're still very much in the tie and I'd go as far as to say we're in the driving seat, so at present it's crisis averted.
 
Of course it's Fernando's fault. If Fernando was half looking away not ready for the ball then you could say Hart should have chose a different option but with Fernando coming short and giving his entire focus to the ball and the pass, it becomes his responsibility entirely to decide what to do next with it. Certainly when you see Ibrahimovic to your right, you don't then try to make a pass to that side. Hart even calls for him to pass left.

Hart can't just say to himself, Fernando is shit I better just boot it, he has to have trust in his teammates.
 
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