Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[GaudinoMotors]

Dude!

Seriously.

Let's say you open a business - a pizza joint for example.

Things are going well. Customers are coming in and love the pizza.

But one of your cashiers is struggling - for whatever reason he refuses to tick the "no cheese" box even when customers want no cheese.

So you talk the the problem employee. You tell him to tick the "no cheese" box when customers ask. You tell him that a TV special about your establishment is imminent and it's especially important to tick "no cheese" if the customer asks.

So what happens?

Customer asks for no cheese.

Box not ticked.

Manager thinks, "WTF?"
=========
This is where we are at with Joe.

But what about all the customers who don't like cheese? They love that "cashier".

 

[aguero93:20]

Hart openly defied Pep in the preseason friendly against Arsenal by lumping it forward - in defiance of Pep's instructions - time and again.

Will you ask roll-on deodorant head to pass on the specific player instructions to all of us before the next game please? Tell him if he doesn't he's going to get cheese on every pizza for the rest of his life.

 

[FanchesterCity]

How do you know how he feels about the club, do you mean you don't think he's a fan or cares about MCFC?... you really think that when he does leave he wont follow City and hope they win in the same way Micha does right now? We can't really say for sure but I genuinely believe Hart is the same as Micha might not have even started out a fan but well and truly is now, it's his club in his eyes. 10 years is significant for a player at any club these days why downplay that just to defend Pep, you don't need to defend Pep anyway he's just made a call he feels is best for the team that's it people will get over it. He knows the club better than most players that has value, he IS attached to the club he'd have gone ages ago if that wasn't the case. Does any of that mean he should stay no matter what, if he's stepped out of line or if the team needs something different? No but lets not change the narrative just to suit the end result.

You are right about him leaving for a bigger club if we were relegated, it's a job first, loyalties/fan aspect second and by the same measure if Hart got a bad injury or just turned shit over night he'd have been shipped off long ago too. Does any of that matter though? Not for me, it's a harsh world especially in football these days but it shouldn't change your own values, you can understand something but you don't have to like it or even agree with it. I still think we'd have been better off giving him one more season to fight for his place back but I'm not the manager and the decision has been made for more than footballing reason IMO so in the end I might even agree depending on that.

Can I say for 100% certainty what he does feel? no, I cannot say that. But I didn't actually say him specifically, I'm talking about professional footballers on the whole.
That said, I VERY much doubt he loves City in the way you think. It's one of the huge beliefs many fans have and 99.99% of the time it's misguided. We try to relate how they must feel based on how we feel. They are simply not like us. They see City in a totally different light to us, they work at the club, their entire perspective is different than ours. Even if they are supporters of the club before they join, they will leave with a different view of City than that of a fan - simply because they've been on the inside. You can never look at Paul McCartney in the same way a fans does if you know him personally or have worked with him - because the mystique is gone, you don't have a fan's perspective anymore.

I have little doubt he has attachment to us - because he's been with us for the best part of 10 years, but it's not the same as being a fan and never will be. He won't be buying a season ticket to follow us, and he won't be irritable when we lose. He won't be trying to check the scores when he's on holiday, or looking up a gossip column to see who we 'might' be signing in some journalists vivid imagination. At best it's likely to be 'a great affection for City'.

He may well be attached to City, but he is not one of us - a fan. He never will be like one of us, and he will never feel as we do. That's just as true for Colin Bell and Mike Summerbee too. I'm not saying they aren't fans, or that they think less of City, but they simply don't and cannot have the same experience that we do because of who they are.
We love the club, the club doesn't love us.
We love many of the players, they don't love us.
We think they feel like us, they don't.

 

[Metalartin]

I'm thinking along the same lines as the manager after reading that.

You thought of pizza too? Amazing :)

We don't know Hart is even thinking like that, Pep understands Willy has had far more time to work on the things he has asked of his keepers in this system, he said as much about his selection for Sunderland. People are making far too much of 45minutes of football, I can't see him making such a big decision so rashly, he understands the situation Hart was late back because of the Euros had a week was it before the Arsenal game? What do you think his expectations were? Same as Willy, would that be fair?

 

[mat]

there's huge rumor that Mancini try to sign Begovic on that summer,
only to get terminated after FA cup final.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Begovic-replace-Joe-Hart-Manchester-City.html

No rumour. Confirmed by Platt.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Do you think that's all Pep considered? 45 mins and he's decided to throw a national keeper out

no of course not, i was replying to the other posters point about that game specifically. I've said he's taken all summer, last year probably to make up his mind

 

[super_city_si]

Got to admit, when the rumours first surfaced i was dead against getting rid of Hart. Now I've had a chance to see Peps side in action and see what he requires from the goalie, I understand the move to bring in Bravo.
In an ideal world. Hart would swallow his pride and knuckle down and learn but that means being no2 and at this stage of his career and after the Euros that would lose him his England place. Its in joes best interest to go on loan so he can figure out what he wants. Its in Citys best interest to sell him.
I'd prefer the former but I can understand the requirement for the latter

 

[che_don_john]

Hart openly defied Pep in the preseason friendly against Arsenal by lumping it forward - in defiance of Pep's instructions - time and again.

That would be enough reason to drop someone, of course; and I back that 100%. But do you think that's enough to deny a long-servant of the club a proper farewell with the fans who have supported him?

 

[Metalartin]

Can I say for 100% certainty that he doesn't feel as we do about the club? no, I cannot say that. But I didn't actually say him specifically, I'm talking about professional footballers on the whole.
That said, I VERY much doubt he loves City in the way you think. It's one of the huge beliefs many fans have and 99.99% of the time it's misguided. They are simply not like us. They see City in a totally different light to us, they work at the club, their entire perspective is different than ours. Even if they are supporters of the club before they join, they will leave with a different view of City than that of a fan - simply because they've been on the inside. You can never look at Paul McCartney in the same was a fans does if you know him personally or have worked with him - because the mystique is gone, you don't have a fan's perspective anymore.

I have little doubt he has attachment to us - because he's been with us for the best part of 10 years, but it's not the same as being a fan and never will be. He won't be buying a season ticket to follow us, and he won't be irritable when we lose. He won't be trying to check the scores when he's on holiday, or looking up a gossip column to see who we 'might' be signing in some journalists vivid imagination.

He may well be attached to City, but he is not one of us - a fan. He never will be like one of us, and he will never feel as we do. That's just as true for Colin Bell and Mike Summerbee too. I'm not saying they aren't fans, or that they think less of City, but they simply don't and cannot have the same experience that we do because of who they are.

You can doubt by all means but you have no idea, pure speculation on your part(depending on what you think I was trying to say?), I've watched inside City for years I know their personalities(well I have a feel for their personalities should I say that's the best thing about that series for me) some of what you were saying just doesn't add up, other players that have been and gone I'd agree with they fit the profile you painted perfectly. Also I never said he was one of us either, at the end of the day they are human though mate they go through the same emotions we do, even if this "mystique" you speak of is gone, they don't all get spoiled by it and take things for granted. I'm almost certain when Hart leaves like I said he will be following our games when he can and wishing us well, I never said turning up at games now did I? I know the life footballers lead, you do understand though some professional footballers still watch football for the fun of it? They are fans of the game even though they are part of it, if you don't think that's the case I don't know what to say to you other than you have it wrong.

 

[mosssideblue]

no of course not, i was replying to the other posters point about that game specifically. I've said he's taken all summer, last year probably to make up his mind

Fair dos and I agree with you