John Guidetti - His Time

[gio's side step]

I agree at some point in time the kids have to be given a chance. Otherwise whats the point in developing the academy. He has a natural hunger for goals and I believe a greater desire than, for example, Mario.

When he returns to fitness he needs to be played.

Anyone who went to the Carling Cup away game at West Brom 2 years ago will know this lad will never play at the highest level for City.

I didn't go to that game. And why will he not play for us at the highest level?

I presume you are judging him from that one game of football.

His club manager last season was a Dutch legend who has played with and against some of the best players the world has ever seeen. This man believes John Guidetti can be better than Ibrahimovic. This is after seeing him for a WHOLE season - not one match. Although you are entitled to form your opinion on that short viewing, I prefer to value the opinion of a highly regarded ex-professional who has 'been there and got the t-shirt'.

Ah you're one of those 'only trust a professional judgement over a fan' type. Nothing wrong with that. But I've watched enough football over the years mate to know when a young player is either exceptionally talented, very good or pretty average. I did go to that game and I saw nothing in him (in a carling cup match against a poor premier league side) which offered any indication whatsoever that he was a real talent who could play for City at the top end of the PL/CL. Add to that, we are now playing at a higher level than we were when he started that game in 2010.

The problem is perception. People in this country think 18/19 is very young for a footballer. In Spain and Italy they dont. Top class young players break through. We still think 'they will improve'. He might become a premier league player for someone like Aston Villa but he won't make it at City (in terms of where we are now).

I don't need to be a professional coach in the dutch league (as shite as that is by the way) to be able to form a sound opinion.

 

[LoveCity]

I agree at some point in time the kids have to be given a chance. Otherwise whats the point in developing the academy. He has a natural hunger for goals and I believe a greater desire than, for example, Mario.

When he returns to fitness he needs to be played.

Anyone who went to the Carling Cup away game at West Brom 2 years ago will know this lad will never play at the highest level for City.

What a ridiculous comment, he was 18-years-old then and that was his first senior game outside of Sweden, in which by the way he assisted a goal. Since then he has developed and matured as (amazingly) young players tend to do and improved tenfold during his loan spell with Feyenoord.

The problem is perception. People in this country think 18/19 is very young for a footballer. In Spain and Italy they dont. Top class young players break through. We still think 'they will improve'. He might become a premier league player for someone like Aston Villa but he won't make it at City (in terms of where we are now).

Then tell me why City have offered him a new long-term contract when there was huge interest in him this summer that the club dismissed? If he isn't anything special, they could have cashed in £6million or so and washed their hands of him.

I seriously think some of our fans subconsciously want our homegrown players to fail and have no idea why... because it might cull the entertaining transfer sagas?

Guidetti is a real talent and thankfully it looks like our club is not as fickle as some fans and realise he is progressing well and are trying to lock him down long-term. By the way if you go and look at some of today's top strikers at his age, you would find they were no better. Ibrahimovic was struggling for goals at Ajax at the same age and didn't truly begin to flourish for them until he was 22/23 (Guidetti turned 20 in April).

 

[gio's side step]

I agree at some point in time the kids have to be given a chance. Otherwise whats the point in developing the academy. He has a natural hunger for goals and I believe a greater desire than, for example, Mario.

When he returns to fitness he needs to be played.

Anyone who went to the Carling Cup away game at West Brom 2 years ago will know this lad will never play at the highest level for City.

What a ridiculous comment, he was 18-years-old then and that was his first senior game outside of Sweden, in which by the way he assisted a goal. Since then he has developed and matured as (amazingly) young players tend to do and improved tenfold during his loan spell with Feyenoord.

The problem is perception. People in this country think 18/19 is very young for a footballer. In Spain and Italy they dont. Top class young players break through. We still think 'they will improve'. He might become a premier league player for someone like Aston Villa but he won't make it at City (in terms of where we are now).

Then tell me why City have offered him a new long-term contract when there was huge interest in him this summer that the club dismissed? If he isn't anything special, they could have cashed in £6million or so and washed their hands of him.

I seriously think some of our fans subconsciously want our homegrown players to fail and have no idea why... because it might cull the entertaining transfer sagas?

Bollocks. In fact this thread has only materialised because its international week and fans fancy throwing a young homegrown player in the mix to feel a bit better about modern football.

18 as I said is not that young anymore (if you are a top class player). He was awful as were the rest of the young players in that game (incidentally none of whom we have seen since). The dutch league is not a good marker for considering a young player who would break into a title winning side in the PL or CL.

 

[Impeccable]

Anyone who went to the Carling Cup away game at West Brom 2 years ago will know this lad will never play at the highest level for City.

I didn't go to that game. And why will he not play for us at the highest level?

I presume you are judging him from that one game of football.

His club manager last season was a Dutch legend who has played with and against some of the best players the world has ever seeen. This man believes John Guidetti can be better than Ibrahimovic. This is after seeing him for a WHOLE season - not one match. Although you are entitled to form your opinion on that short viewing, I prefer to value the opinion of a highly regarded ex-professional who has 'been there and got the t-shirt'.

Ah you're one of those 'only trust a professional judgement over a fan' type. Nothing wrong with that. But I've watched enough football over the years mate to know when a young player is either exceptionally talented, very good or pretty average. I did go to that game and I saw nothing in him (in a carling cup match against a poor premier league side) which offered any indication whatsoever that he was a real talent who could play for City at the top end of the PL/CL. Add to that, we are now playing at a higher level than we were when he started that game in 2010.

The problem is perception. People in this country think 18/19 is very young for a footballer. In Spain and Italy they dont. Top class young players break through. We still think 'they will improve'. He might become a premier league player for someone like Aston Villa but he won't make it at City (in terms of where we are now).

I don't need to be a professional coach in the dutch league (as shite as that is by the way) to be able to form a sound opinion.

Read what I said again... someone sees ONE GAME and forms an opinion about the rest of his career... ONE FECKING GAME!!!!

I have played to a decent standard myself - so I understand how it works.

 

[gio's side step]

I didn't go to that game. And why will he not play for us at the highest level?

I presume you are judging him from that one game of football.

His club manager last season was a Dutch legend who has played with and against some of the best players the world has ever seeen. This man believes John Guidetti can be better than Ibrahimovic. This is after seeing him for a WHOLE season - not one match. Although you are entitled to form your opinion on that short viewing, I prefer to value the opinion of a highly regarded ex-professional who has 'been there and got the t-shirt'.

Ah you're one of those 'only trust a professional judgement over a fan' type. Nothing wrong with that. But I've watched enough football over the years mate to know when a young player is either exceptionally talented, very good or pretty average. I did go to that game and I saw nothing in him (in a carling cup match against a poor premier league side) which offered any indication whatsoever that he was a real talent who could play for City at the top end of the PL/CL. Add to that, we are now playing at a higher level than we were when he started that game in 2010.

The problem is perception. People in this country think 18/19 is very young for a footballer. In Spain and Italy they dont. Top class young players break through. We still think 'they will improve'. He might become a premier league player for someone like Aston Villa but he won't make it at City (in terms of where we are now).

I don't need to be a professional coach in the dutch league (as shite as that is by the way) to be able to form a sound opinion.

Read what I said again... someone sees ONE GAME and forms an opinion about the rest of his career... ONE FECKING GAME!!!!

I have played to a decent standard myself - so I understand how it works.

One game about whether he is a TOP class young player or potential to be REALLY TOP class (which to play centre forward for a club at the top end of the title and in the CL) one is usually required to be. It would only ever get a game at City if we had 3 players injured. Hence, my perception (two years ago based on ONE GAME) was specific to not being a player would make the grade at City (at this level we are at now). I dont care if he signs a fucking 10 year contract. I stand by that remark.

 

[LoveCity]

Bollocks. In fact this thread has only materialised because its international week and fans fancy throwing a young homegrown player in the mix to feel a bit better about modern football.

Or maybe, just maybe, we are starting to develop some good footballers? Do you not rate Razak who made the bench at weekend either? Let's drop the inferiority complex, top clubs produce good players and we are a top club now.

18 as I said is not that young anymore (if you are a top class player).

18 is very young and players develop at different rates - especially strikers. Some are phenoms who break through at 18, some don't break through until they are 21 or 22. Drogba played in the French second division until almost his mid-20s. Van Nistlerooy only started matching Guidetti's goal ratio from Feyenoord in the Dutch league when he was about 22 or 23. Not all good players have completed their development and are firing on all cylinders by the time they are 19.

The dutch league is not a good marker for considering a young player who would break into a title winning side in the PL or CL.

The Dutch league has produced many champions over many eras.

Furthermore, what you seem to be failing to grasp is that Guidetti is clearly improving as a player. Why do you find the concept that a young player is improving so hard to understand? Why did we send him to Feyenoord if we didn't feel he might not develop there? Why didn't we send him to Carlisle or Oldham instead like some of our lesser prospects?

Have you even watched him since the West Brom game?

 

[gio's side step]

Bollocks. In fact this thread has only materialised because its international week and fans fancy throwing a young homegrown player in the mix to feel a bit better about modern football.

Or maybe, just maybe, we are starting to develop some good footballers? Do you not rate Razak who made the bench at weekend either? Let's drop the inferiority complex, top clubs produce good players and we are a top club now.

18 as I said is not that young anymore (if you are a top class player).

18 is very young and players develop at different rates - especially strikers. Some are phenoms who break through at 18, some don't break through until they are 21 or 22. Drogba played in the French second division until almost his mid-20s. Van Nistlerooy only started matching Guidetti's goal ratio from Feyenoord in the Dutch league when he was about 22 or 23. Not all good players have completed their development and are firing on all cylinders by the time they are 19.

The dutch league is not a good marker for considering a young player who would break into a title winning side in the PL or CL.

The Dutch league has produced many champions over many eras.

Furthermore, what you seem to be failing to grasp is that Guidetti is clearly improving as a player. Why do you find the concept that a young player is improving so hard to understand? Why did we send him to Feyenoord if we didn't feel he might not develop there? Why didn't we send him to Carlisle or Oldham instead like some of our lesser prospects?

Have you even watched him since the West Brom game?

Yes and I stand by my comment he wont make the grade at City and become a regular player in our side

 

[Impeccable]

Ah you're one of those 'only trust a professional judgement over a fan' type. Nothing wrong with that. But I've watched enough football over the years mate to know when a young player is either exceptionally talented, very good or pretty average. I did go to that game and I saw nothing in him (in a carling cup match against a poor premier league side) which offered any indication whatsoever that he was a real talent who could play for City at the top end of the PL/CL. Add to that, we are now playing at a higher level than we were when he started that game in 2010.

The problem is perception. People in this country think 18/19 is very young for a footballer. In Spain and Italy they dont. Top class young players break through. We still think 'they will improve'. He might become a premier league player for someone like Aston Villa but he won't make it at City (in terms of where we are now).

I don't need to be a professional coach in the dutch league (as shite as that is by the way) to be able to form a sound opinion.

Read what I said again... someone sees ONE GAME and forms an opinion about the rest of his career... ONE FECKING GAME!!!!

I have played to a decent standard myself - so I understand how it works.

One game about whether he is a TOP class young player or potential to be REALLY TOP class (which to play centre forward for a club at the top end of the title and in the CL) one is usually required to be. It would only ever get a game at City if we had 3 players injured. Hence, my perception (two years ago based on ONE GAME) was specific to not being a player would make the grade at City (at this level we are at now). I dont care if he signs a fucking 10 year contract. I stand by that remark.

Unbelievable, Jeff.

 

[gio's side step]

Read what I said again... someone sees ONE GAME and forms an opinion about the rest of his career... ONE FECKING GAME!!!!

I have played to a decent standard myself - so I understand how it works.

One game about whether he is a TOP class young player or potential to be REALLY TOP class (which to play centre forward for a club at the top end of the title and in the CL) one is usually required to be. It would only ever get a game at City if we had 3 players injured. Hence, my perception (two years ago based on ONE GAME) was specific to not being a player would make the grade at City (at this level we are at now). I dont care if he signs a fucking 10 year contract. I stand by that remark.

Unbelievable, Jeff.

I'll gladly throw this thread out in 2 years time.

 

[LoveCity]

Right so it's based on one game in the Carling Cup, everything he has done since is thrown out the window, the fact that the club rates him highly enough to turn down offers to try and keep him is thrown out the window. So it's basically logic vs. stubbornness. Messi and Ronaldo never had bad games when they were 18 or 19 did they? In fact I remember Ronaldo was quite poor in his early days at the swamp but was given time to develop and grow.